| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | 3 fatal errors to avoid when you're starting Thread poster: Nicole König
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 06:27
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Tom in London wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
.... it is dreadful writing. First of all, it's "at Square One", not "on square one".
Commenting on the author's use of "at square one" should be "last of all", not first of all. A bad piece of writing is still bad even if you fix all the grammar errors. Only an elegant piece of writing that suffers from bad grammar will benefit from nitpicking about such issues. First fix the big problems. What little problems there were will disappear and be replaced with other little problems. Then fix the little problems.
Also, if someone's only criticism of a piece of writing is its grammar and syntax, it raises the suspicion that the criticizer saw nothing wrong with the text in general and is in fact unable to tell good writing from bad.
No, I was thinking more of chunks of text like "it’s hard to make money in terms of continuously generating a noteworthy amount of net profit if you don’t have a business plan".
| | | | Rebecca Davis
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:27
French to English
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| And the point is? | Oct 15, 2018 |
Quite apart from the clunky syntax, grammatical errors, and consultant-speak, I don't understand what this piece is doing in a forum for professional translators in the first place...Are these all mistakes that the author made and wants to tell us about, or am I missing something?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 06:27
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Rebecca Davis wrote:
I don't understand what this piece is doing in a forum for professional translators in the first place... are these all mistakes that the author made and wants to tell us about?
As far as I understand, Nicole is a translator with a motivational speaking side-line. Her post is intended to promote two translator-related events (one paid, one free with registration). Since this is the "Getting established" forum, any content about mistakes made by beginners and how to avoid them is "on-topic", as far as I'm concerned, even if the author did not make these mistakes herself.
I'm not thrilled about the posting of platitudes masquerading as useful content purely as a cover to promote a product or event, but it's not specifically against forum rules even if it is a little dishonest. It's true that Nicole's blog post doesn't say anything new or doesn't really offer anything useful, but the same is also often true when people post genuine advice on this forum -- little is actually new.
[Edited at 2018-10-15 14:54 GMT]
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 00:27
Spanish to English
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| Two general points | Oct 15, 2018 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
A bad piece of writing is still bad even if you fix all the grammar errors. Only an elegant piece of writing that suffers from bad grammar will benefit from nitpicking about such issues.
I think you meant “otherwise elegant,” but I take your point: You can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear.
Two points seem to be in order as regards the present discussion:
1.
Anyone marketing professional translation services into English would be well advised to ensure that his or her English writing on a public forum is, at the very least, of acceptable quality.
2.
Anyone presuming to give professional advice to other linguists, and who wishes to be taken seriously, has the obligation to use his or her language of choice in a way that is not merely acceptable, but impeccable.
[Edited at 2018-10-16 15:33 GMT]
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| Acceptable vs. Impeccable | Oct 15, 2018 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
Two points seem to be in order as regards the present discussion:
1.
Anyone marketing professional translation services into English would be well advised to assure that his or her English writing on a public forum is, at the very least, of acceptable quality.
2.
Anyone presuming to give professional advice to other linguists, and who wishes to be taken seriously, has the obligation to use his or her language of choice in a way that is not merely acceptable, but impeccable.
Actually, I would invert the two. I think someone who translates into a language should have a perfect command of that language, while someone who gives "professional advice" to others should just be able to make themself understood using the language (either English or the target audience's language) at an "acceptable" level. In the end, that's what happens everyday here on the fora, where "professional advice" is exchanged between people with varying degrees of knowledge and proficiency in English (and other languages). If by "professional" advice you actually meant "paid for", then I agree that form would be somewhat more important, but still less than it is when it comes to translation services, as in this case the "product" being sold IS the language itself, not the advice.
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I signed up for the Coffee Hour Webinar called "Client List Expansion"; instead what I got was the presenter talking about her own CV and achievements for twenty minutes, followed by fifteen minutes of what she was going to talk about at this famous conference in November. After that I switched off.
While I understand that a free webinar is not going to equal a paid one in terms of content, misleading people with clickbait titles is annoying and frustrating, as well as doing the or... See more I signed up for the Coffee Hour Webinar called "Client List Expansion"; instead what I got was the presenter talking about her own CV and achievements for twenty minutes, followed by fifteen minutes of what she was going to talk about at this famous conference in November. After that I switched off.
While I understand that a free webinar is not going to equal a paid one in terms of content, misleading people with clickbait titles is annoying and frustrating, as well as doing the organiser's reputation little good in the long run.
Or maybe I missed the best part at the end?
[Edited at 2018-10-15 22:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:27
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Nicole König wrote: We've taken measures to make the article more enjoyable and, needless to say, another round of proofreading has already taken place.  Have a fantastic week!
We?
I have no plans for the week.
| | | | | Glass houses and stones | Oct 16, 2018 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
Anyone marketing professional translation services into English would be well advised to assure that his or her English writing on a public forum is, at the very least, of acceptable quality.
Ensure?
Sorry, couldn't resist!
I do agree with you, but I don't think there is much to gain from knocking other people's writing on here. It can so easily come back to bite you.
Tom in London wrote:
I have no plans for the week.
Maybe you should spend the week using Nicole's tips to build an "online storefront that funnels your uniqueness and niche expertise into a client fanbase" and so "go from coffee to champagne, from self-employed to self-actualization, from feast and famine to financial freedom"!
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Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 00:27
Spanish to English
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Chris S wrote: Robert Forstag wrote:
Anyone marketing professional translation services into English would be well advised to assure that his or her English writing on a public forum is, at the very least, of acceptable quality.
Ensure? Sorry, couldn't resist! I do agree with you, but I don't think there is much to gain from knocking other people's writing on here. It can so easily come back to bite you.
Sloppy on my part. Bite deserved. Correction made.
No one is immune to making mistakes. But I also don’t think one should refrain from reporting a murder he has witnessed because he has a couple of unpaid parking tickets....
[Edited at 2018-10-16 17:43 GMT]
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I agree with Tom; the objective behind the blog is self-promotion. In any case, this “ad” is not targeting us. Rather, it is focused on outsourcers, as they too read these threads. This is, by all means, a legitimate endeavour. I do not agree with some colleagues here who criticise it.
As a side note, though, keeping a blog, a website or social media sites updated and "content-rich" takes quite some time. My opinion is that either you do it well (which, unfortunately, is a full-... See more I agree with Tom; the objective behind the blog is self-promotion. In any case, this “ad” is not targeting us. Rather, it is focused on outsourcers, as they too read these threads. This is, by all means, a legitimate endeavour. I do not agree with some colleagues here who criticise it.
As a side note, though, keeping a blog, a website or social media sites updated and "content-rich" takes quite some time. My opinion is that either you do it well (which, unfortunately, is a full-time job) or you don’t do it. I decided not to do it, as I simply do not have enough time to do blogging, updating websites, feeding social media sites, etc. This is the reason I scrapped my website, as well as my social media sites. I am trying to keep my ProZ profile “appealing” enough, and I do like to participate in these forum threads, when I am not working (which means, I am not working right now, as I write this message).
It’s all about doing something only if you can do it very well. Otherwise, it may turn against you...
[Edited at 2018-10-16 16:19 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:27
German to English
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| Free webinars ESPECIALLY should offer excellent content in order to have the most impact | Oct 17, 2018 |
Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:
While I understand that a free webinar is not going to equal a paid one in terms of content, misleading people with clickbait titles is annoying and frustrating, as well as doing the organiser's reputation little good in the long run.
Absolutely agree. Also, I do lots of free webinars and courses as part of my CPD throughout the year. They are not all interesting but all so far have contained useful information. Free does not have to mean crappy, useless content.
It would seem to me that if part of your own business plan involves marketing your motivational/consulting services, and you offer something free to give people a taster and convince them that your services are worth paying for, then you better make sure the free stuff you offer is REALLY REALLY useful and is about them, your target market. They have to feel that what you are offering is of value to them.
Otherwise, as you say, Fiona, your target market only becomes annoyed and frustrated and your reputation takes a hit.
| | | | | SEO strategy... | Oct 17, 2018 |
It's called "link building"... it's an old trick... it can help the Google ranking, but it can also backfire...
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| perfect writing | Oct 19, 2018 |
Mirko Mainardi wrote:
I think someone who translates into a language should have a perfect command of that language...
I don't think there is any such thing as 'perfect command' of a language.
A language is a living, moody beast, and its use and grammar never certain.
There are lots of ways to skin a cat; personally, I prefer a concise message that doesn't waste words or get caught up in woolly sidetracks, but others may differ.
Either way, this blog doesn't hit the mark, and the message doesn't live up to the pretentiousness of its verbosity.
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Richard Purdom wrote: Mirko Mainardi wrote:
I think someone who translates into a language should have a perfect command of that language... I don't think there is any such thing as 'perfect command' of a language. A language is a living, moody beast, and its use and grammar never certain. There are lots of ways to skin a cat; personally, I prefer a concise message that doesn't waste words or get caught up in woolly sidetracks, but others may differ.
My "perfect command" was simply meant as a paraphrase of "impeccable" as used by Robert, in the same context.
Just to make a classic example, I often read English native speakers who (repeatedly) use "it's" instead of "its" (or "of" instead of "have", "who's" instead of "whose", etc.). Well, I believe those speakers would hardly produce "impeccable" work when translating, or just writing, into English, while similar errors could simply "look bad" if they were to give business advice to someone else.
In other words, my point was that in order to offer translation services into a language, your competence and performance skills should both be "perfect" (in potency), while in order to give advice about conducting a business, neither is actually (strictly) required. All this irrespective of language style or evolution awareness, which are obviously also important, but different, aspects.
| | | | | advising blogs | Oct 20, 2018 |
In order of importance, if advice is being given which will probably be read primarily by novices, then the content matters even more than correctness of form (grammar, language quality). That latter can be an object lesson of sorts when it gets discussed.
I cannot agree with the first point made, that translation skills are of secondary importance, and being able to solve a client's problems is of first importance. To begin with, we are not hired as consultants, who have their ow... See more In order of importance, if advice is being given which will probably be read primarily by novices, then the content matters even more than correctness of form (grammar, language quality). That latter can be an object lesson of sorts when it gets discussed.
I cannot agree with the first point made, that translation skills are of secondary importance, and being able to solve a client's problems is of first importance. To begin with, we are not hired as consultants, who have their own skill set, and who also charge per hour. At least as important is the fact that clients are hiring us for a translation service, and to produce a product that they can use, the translation. Any question by new clients hinged on my abilities as a translator. In fact, going into other spheres such as critiquing a client's blog or sales pitch might be seen as unwanted, invasive, (maybe insulting) and outside of the parameters of the work. In fact, are we qualified to play such a role? Secondly, even if by chance you are - if you are hired to translate a one page document for which you might charge between $30 and $50 - do you really want to spend 4 or 5 hours doing consultancy work for those $50?
My impression is that this advice comes from a source that deals with entrepreneurship in general, and not translation specifically.
In considering whether translation skills are secondary in importance, I think we should also explore what translation skills consist of. For me it begins with knowing the client's purpose for the document, who will be reading that document, and in what country. Translation skill (imho) consists of knowing what questions to ask to that end, and then have the abilities to render a product that meets these parameters. You then have your translation training so that you know how to translate, check your work toward what criteria, have sufficient expertise in the subject area (including knowing when to say no because you don't have the expertise), as well as the required proficiency in both languages. The ability to do quality translations must be coupled with a willingness to do your best for each and every client. In our modern world, such attitudes can be sadly rare in any field. This will indeed lead to word-of-mouth and repeat customers. To me all of this is part of one package called "translation skills".
I'd be interested in the OP's thoughts on this. ▲ Collapse
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