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Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

l\'arrêté rectoral collectif de titularisation

anglais translation:

the Chief Education Officer\'s decree on collectively granting qualified teacher status

Added to glossary by Lara Barnett
Mar 5, 2023 20:58
1 yr ago
36 viewers *
français term

l'arrêté rectoral collectif de titularisation

français vers anglais Affaires / Finance Certificats / diplômes / licences / CV School-teaching Diploma
This is one of the statements on a graduates teaching diploma, from the Academie de creteil.

Context:

"Vu le .....
Vu le .....
VU l'arrêté rectoral collectif de titularisation en date du 20 juillet 2016.

Le diplome professioned de professeur des ecoles decerne a Madame....."
Proposed translations (anglais)
3 the Chief Education Officer's decree on collectively granting qualified teacher status
3 +1 Joint Vice-Chancellor's Decree on Tenure
3 decision collectively to award Qualified Teacher Status (QTS)
Change log

Mar 6, 2023 11:07: Lara Barnett changed "Restriction (Native Lang)" from "eng" to "none"

Discussion

Charles R. Mar 9, 2023:
@ FPC We're saying the same ;)
FPC Mar 9, 2023:
Charles We are saying the same. I know it's a different qualification altogether. That was my point. I hadn't seen what the Asker's question was exactly about, so I felt I had to clarify. In that case you're right, it's both permanent employment AND public employee status. That's not always the case. You might be "titularisé.e", as you know, in a private school without being "fonctionnaire".
Charles R. Mar 9, 2023:
@ FPC Right, I shouldn't have written pathway but just degree in my comment.
I believe the diploma would mention "certificat d'aptitude au professorat des écoles de l'enseignement privé sous contrat" if it weren't about the public sector.

PS: Dans l'éducation nationale, il y a une réforme tous les 3 ans en moyenne donc c'est très difficile d'être sûr à 100%, j'avoue.
FPC Mar 8, 2023:
@Charles I know there's a separate pathway. That's what I wrote indeed ( and also that once awarded teacher's status in state schools you can move to the private sector, but not viceversa). The point was you can become "professeur des écoles" (which means elementary school teacher) in the private or the public sector once you pass the relevant examination ("concours"). If you pass it for the public sector (state schools) then once titularisé.e you're also a civil servant. That's not the case if you're titularisé.e as a teacher in the private sector. I didn't know what "concours" the ST was about, hence my clarification in the previous comment.

PS to my knowledge, at least in the US "tenure" is fine also for schools
ph-b (X) Mar 8, 2023:
Hello Lara
You've opted to use "Chief Education Officer" to translate recteur. Using this term, especially with capitals, is a direct reference to the UK school system.

Are you quite sure that these people issue "decrees" in the UK? I think that a more neutral word like "decision" would be more appropriate (but would like to hear from E&W public law specialists).

And more importantly, I'm afraid that Chief Education Officers - if that's what they are - don't award qualified teacher status in the UK. This is the UK Education Secretary's prerogative, as I pointed out and documented in my answer.

Speaking of QTS, note that I had slight reservations about it when I introduced the term on this page. As I said, this is the closest I can think of in a British context, but you might want to keep titularisation in italics in your translation to alert your client/readers.

Bref, I hope you won't mind my saying, très confraternellement, that I'm not convinced by your choice.

And now over to mods/site staff, who will no doubt delete this post as it's in breach of a Kudoz rule that says something like: "Don't discuss Asker's choice". It's happened to me before...
Charles R. Mar 7, 2023:
@FPC The source text is about the diplôme professionnel de professeur des écoles (awarded following the concours de recrutement de professeurs des écoles) and AFAIK when someone passes it and gets their titularisation, they're established in the civil service. I guess they can work as a teacher in a private school later (they possibly have to work in public schools for a couple of years first) but they still remain a civil servant "en disponibilité" unless they decide to resign.
To work in private schools sous contrat (private schools following the national curriculum and funded by public money), there is a specific pathway and a specific degree called "certificat d'aptitude au professorat des écoles de l'enseignement privé sous contrat".

For private schools sous contrat: https://www.devenirenseignant.gouv.fr/pid33984/enseigner-dan...
For public schools: https://www.devenirenseignant.gouv.fr/pid33983/enseigner-de-...

About tenure, it was my first choice but then I felt that it may be used only in the context of universities.
FPC Mar 7, 2023:
I see the question si now closed, however "titularisation" makes reference to the status of the teacher with respect to his/her employment contract. "Titulaire" is the teacher with a permanent employment contract. This is easily and quite closely translated in English es "tenured"/"tenure" or "permanent employment".
Now, the issue of being a public official or civil servant, that is someone belonging to the ranks of the public sector, the issue is more complex. In France there's a clear distinction between teachers in state schools and teachers in private schools. Both can be "titulaires" in their respective sectors. Both state school teachers and for teachers in state-certified private schools, called "sous contrat", are paid with state funds but there can be no movement from the private sector to the public one (the other way round is possible under conditions). The competitive examinations for each position are separate, but for both sector they are administered and validated by the "Académie", the local public body governing education and university.
That is to say that you can be "titulaire" in the private sector, without being a public sector employee. "Titulaire" means you're "permanently appointed to the post"
Charles R. Mar 7, 2023:
@ Lara Today morning I added elements in the discussion and in my answer to more accurately describe titularisation.
Charles R. Mar 7, 2023:
Maybe we can add... the Chief Education Officer's decree on collectively granting qualified teacher status and establishment in the civil service
or
the Chief Education Officer's decree on collectively granting qualified teacher and established civil servant status

See https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1949/mar/... for both "established civil servant" and "establishment in the civil service".

The phrase gets very long and wouldn't even fit in the answer field.
Charles R. Mar 7, 2023:
My first discussion entry... ...has been deleted by a mod by the way. Allegedly we are not allowed to comment specifically other members' answers in the discussion section. I wasn't aware of this rule.
Charles R. Mar 7, 2023:
@ Daryo You're right and that's also what I wrote below in the discussion section and in my peer comment to ph-b. However Lara and ph-b convinced me that we wouldn't find a closer equivalent.
Daryo Mar 7, 2023:
Or that Proz will find some pretext to pretend to not see it, or to not do anything about it.

@ Charles
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can remember "titularisation" is more than just "passing an exam" it means being "admitted in the civil service (/fonction publique)" in a specific capacity - as teacher f.ex.
Andrew Bramhall Mar 6, 2023:
Bizarre comments on 'Agravo interno? 27/02 "Adrian MM.: internal appeals https://www.boip.int/en/ip-professionals/news/a-new-common-c... PS I used to be on the books of the same London trans. agency as (2nd choice) Andrew B. alias Oliver 'Renaud' Toogood."

How would Adrian know which London translation agencies I work or have worked for, when he have never had contacts outside proz questions?
Andrew Bramhall Mar 6, 2023:
"Oliver Thomas Toogood" was a fictitious creation by me purely to have a separate identity to the one I have on Translatorscafé, with the initials obviously representing OTT as in ' over the top', which AMM was quick to pick up on; sadly though, despite explaining this numerous times, Adrian thinks my real ID is OTT, whereas it's Andrew Bramhall in reality, I told PG the truth ages ago, and he gave the mods the heads up, which is fine. There are however advantages tohaving two separate ID's for the two translation sites. I hope this puts the matter to bed. Thank you.
Charles R. Mar 6, 2023:
@ Lara OK thank you, I'm giving it a try and I think that ph-b's "qualified teacher status" is better here then.
Lara Barnett (asker) Mar 6, 2023:
@ Charles I think in English "qualified status" would naturally imply that the person is acceptably qualified to work in a sector such as this. For example, we say QTS (Qualified Teacher Status), which is understood to mean the person is not only certified academically, but is also licensed to work as a teacher. I think the English understanding of the term would work here.
Charles R. Mar 6, 2023:
@ Lara I would like to but I'm still unsure about the translation of 2 terms:
- Titularisation is much more than a teaching qualification/certification. With the titularisation, one is granted the civil servant status. At first I thought that "tenure" would be a good translation but it looks like tenure is only used in the context of universities.
- Collectif here does not mean that the decision is made collectively (by the jury académique) but that the qualification/status is granted to several persons in the same decree.

Besides, Chief Education Officer is, I think, a better translation. Even if Local Education Authorities do not exist any longer in the UK and even if CEdOs in councils have much less prerogatives than they used to have in LEAs. There are only 30 académies in France and recteur is a prestigious, key position. We won't find a perfectly equivalent term in English but CEdO seems better than Principal Education Officer to me.
https://www.myjobscotland.gov.uk/sites/default/files/job-att...
http://www.educationengland.org.uk/articles/01ceo.html
Lara Barnett (asker) Mar 6, 2023:
@ Charles I find this the most logical explanation. Will you be posting it as an answer? Would you say that "titularisation" could be translated as "certification status"? Or this:

In view of the Collective(Joint ?) Principal Education Officer’s Decree regarding certification status, dated 20 July 2016.

Proposed translations

16 heures
Selected

the Chief Education Officer's decree on collectively granting qualified teacher status

See discussion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2023-03-07 04:56:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In order to more accurately describe titularisation, the following options may be suitable but the sentence gets very long compared to "arrêté rectoral collectif de titularisation"...

the Chief Education Officer's decree on collectively granting qualified teacher status and establishment in the civil service
or
the Chief Education Officer's decree on collectively granting qualified teacher and established civil servant status

See https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1949/mar/... for both "established civil servant" and "establishment in the civil service".
Peer comment(s):
neutral Daryo : right idea, but I think it also means immediate employment in a "permanent status" // in UK a "qualified teacher" wouldn't get any automatic immediate employment - could end up unemployed for ages.// "established civil servant status" that sounds perfect.
12 heures
True, that's also what I wrote in my peer comment to ph-b and to Lara in the discussion section. However both convinced me that we would not find a closer equivalent. // I added some elements in my answer to more accurately describe titularisation.
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Awarding 3 points as, given Daryo's comment, I am not entirely sure it is complete, but is the best choice here. Thanks."
+1
34 minutes

Joint Vice-Chancellor's Decree on Tenure

"Rector" is not the recommended translation of "Recteur"
Vice-Chancellor is probably a good equivalent but I haven't websearched to see if this university has any English titles for its senior admin.
I tried to to find the actual Decree but the Académie had archived all of the Decrees of 2016 and it wasn't visible. Many later ones are, and these might help.
Only medium CL as I have done minimal research on this.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 37 mins (2023-03-05 21:35:45 GMT)
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Arrêtés | Académie de Créteil
Académie de Créteil
https://www.ac-creteil.fr › arretes-1...
·
Translate this page
Arrêtés de composition jury EFS session février 2023 · Arrêté collectif de titularisation des professeurs de lycée professionnel - Jury de décembre 2022.
Peer comment(s):
agree Adrian MM. : 'security of tenure' / civil-servant establishment https://iate.europa.eu/search/result/1678050882512/1 //AB is def. Oliver Toogood /OTT & Zorra - with the same languages, subjects & style - to dodge a ProZ ban and bar on (nasty) mutual comments .
13 minutes
thanks
agree Andrew Bramhall : Though I don't understand the relevance of a comment in Austrian German in a French> English question addressed to "old laggards";// it's " masquerade" and I'm not her; easily proven by checking I.P. addresses. Don't believe Adrian's delusions.
1 heure
disagree Charles R. : Il ne s'agit pas d'une université ici mais du recteur de l'Académie de Créteil. Voir discussion.
7 heures
You clearly have more knowledge than I do on this subject
Something went wrong...
11 heures
français term (edited): arrêté rectoral collectif de titularisation

decision collectively to award Qualified Teacher Status (QTS)


The bit about the recteur will be difficult to translate. "Administrative decision?"/"Official decision"?

« le recteur d'académie, pour l'exercice des missions relatives au contenu et à l'organisation de l'action éducatrice ainsi qu'à la gestion des personnels et des établissements qui y concourent, prend les décisions dans les matières entrant dans le champ de compétences du ministre chargé de l'éducation et du ministre chargé de l'enseignement supérieur exercées à l'échelon de l'académie »
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/section_lc/LEGITEXT0000...

As for titularisation, there is a British equivalent:

education.gov.uk
https://teacherservices.education.gov.uk › Mutu...
PDF
Once awarded qualified teacher status (QTS), this status stays with you and, under normal circumstances, cannot be rescinded. As you will be recognised.
2 pages

And "You are now a qualified teacher for the purposes of employment in schools" appears on the UK government document I received at the end of my training.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2023-03-06 08:38:22 GMT)
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Or "qualified teacher status" (without capitals), so that there's no direct reference to to Britain.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 heures (2023-03-06 13:07:47 GMT)
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Careful about "qualified", as it must be read in conjunction with "status". It isn't merely about being qualified to teach, it is about being awarded a status, just as titularisation does in France. As far as I know, there is no exact equivalent in the UK.

Because both civil services are managed in different ways, especially with regard to education, all you can do here is try to find terms that describe processes with the same aim in each country instead of translating literally.

Speaking of which, I recommend that you check the meaning and use of "certified status" and "principal education officer" (mentioned by you in the discussion).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 heures (2023-03-06 13:48:21 GMT)
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Regarding recteur/rectoral, I'm not sure what the best translation would be as, once again, both countries have different systems and there's no such recteur in the UK.

Based on personal experience, my status was confirmed by the UK Education Secretary and my teaching contract confirming my appointment, not my status, was with the county council for which I was about to teach.

On that basis, I wonder whether you really need to find a UK person or title/post/function which may not exist or might be wrong. Would it not be enough to convey the idea that it is an official appointment, which it is? I suggested "official decision" above and native speakers can improve on that, but I think that's the way to go.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 jour 15 heures (2023-03-07 12:32:55 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------


"director of education" could be a good translation as it doesn't refer directly to any UK position.

>

"director of education's decision collectively to award qualified teacher status"
Peer comment(s):
neutral Charles R. : Avec la titularisation, on obtient le statut de fonctionnaire (avant titularisation, on est fonctionnaire stagiaire révocable). C'est donc plus qu'une simple qualification. / OK, convaincu mais il manque toujours "rectoral".
2 heures
Les deux fonctions publiques ne se comparent pas, surtout dans l'enseignement. Le QTS ("non rescindable under normal circumstances") est l'équivalent le + proche de la titularisation chez les enseignants britanniques.
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