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Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

vie

anglais translation:

life (in a transcendental sense)

Added to glossary by Stephanie Ezrol
Mar 16, 2011 17:04
13 yrs ago
français term

vie

français vers anglais Autre Religions Gospel text used in the script of a religious play
Here is the full sentence:

C’est par votre persévérance que vous gagnerez la vie.

This is from Luke 21:19.

There are English translations that are quite different, some refering to protecting or saving your life. Others to the soul.

My dictionary says that vie can also mean being or existence. That sounds better to me, and I would prefer to say soul. But as I am translating a playwright not the bible, I need to know if vie is ever used to mean soul in French. Or any other suggestions that people might have.
Proposed translations (anglais)
4 +3 life
5 lives
3 eternal life
3 survival
3 gain salvation

Discussion

Stephanie Ezrol (asker) Mar 17, 2011:
I had to turn in the translation and did use life. However I found the whole discussion here very useful and I really want to thank everyone. More than half of this play is composed of gospel stories but as I was forced to remember there are different biblical compilations as well as very different English versions of the same text. I know some of the history of bible compilation going back LeFevre d'Etaples and Erasmus in the 1500s but this is the first time I had to call back some of those memories for a translation. Thanks Kirsten for reminding me of the idea of life/vie being a transcendatal idea. It certainly was for Pasteur in a lovely experimental way.
AllegroTrans Mar 17, 2011:
So perhaps it's back.... to the asker's own suggestion of "soul"
I would opt for that one
Kirsten Bodart Mar 17, 2011:
I would say that 'vie' could mean something more transcendental than what it implies directly. As this is a Bible verse, clearly the writer meant to say something more than what his character is saying. I would opt for something at least resembling the King James Bible as that is the most read and known in the English language: "In your patience possess ye your souls." That way, every reader or viewer will realise it is a bible verse at least.
Jim Tucker (X) Mar 17, 2011:
"vie" is an interpretation rather than a literal.. ...translation of anima or psüche. Agree with Phil that when translating the Fr. there's no room to insert exegesis - but the French "vie" is itself just that: an interpretation of "anima" in a broader Chr. sense. Possibly for effect (making the message less abstract and more elemental) or perhaps just to make the message comprehensible to all.
Jocelyne Cuenin Mar 17, 2011:
Contexte de l'apocalypse Cette phrase s'inscrit dans le contexte de l'apocalypse. Il ne vous arrivera rien de mal malgre toute l'horreur de l'apocalypse. Ayez confiance, vous serez sauves, car vous parviendrez dans le royaume de Dieu, quelque chose comme cela.
Isabelle Barth-O'Neill Mar 16, 2011:
French equivalent Here is the French equivalent from a website I would trust !!

http://www.info-bible.org/lsg/42.Luc.html
David Salas Mar 16, 2011:
more research into this, fyi: Here is another French translation:
En tenant bon, vous parviendrez au salut. (Bible du Semeur) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 21:19&versi...

The original Greek word here is "Psuche." the English definition of the Greek word is as follows: "soul, that immaterial part of man held in common with animals... (etc)" so yes, if this text is based on the Luke passage, soul would be the most accurate translation. :)
Stephanie Ezrol (asker) Mar 16, 2011:
Thanks Jim. That's helpful. There is something called the Internation Standard Version of the Bible in English which uses life instead of soul, so my author may using the French equivalent of that. That is if there is a French equivalent.
Jim Tucker (X) Mar 16, 2011:
par votre persévérance vous sauverez vos âmes... is the Louis Segond translation, fwiw. (it's animas in the vulg.)
AllegroTrans Mar 16, 2011:
If you're translating a playwright... and not the Bible, perhaps you should ask him or her..this strikes me as a delicate balance

Proposed translations

+3
5 heures
Selected

life

This is not biblical exegesis, it's translating what the French says. Though if you Google "Luke 21:19", the first two hits you get are "By standing firm, you will gain life" and "Stand firm, and you will gain life".
Note from asker:
I agree that even if the original Greeek or Aramaic was soul/psyche the French vie probably does have to be translated as life. My question was if perhaps it could be being or existence, or if vie was ever used to mean soul.
Peer comment(s):
agree Catherine Gilsenan : http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/passage.aspx?q=luke 21:1...
44 minutes
agree Helen Shiner
1 heure
agree Melissa McMahon : I think it's important to use an existing biblical rendering
13 heures
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
11 minutes

eternal life

How about this? This way you keep "vie" in your translation, but come closer to the meaning of "soul" in the Christian sense (as in "the bit that doesn't die").

a quick search came up with this:

Our Lord proclaimed, “In your patience possess ye your souls” (Luke 21:19). From this passage it is clear that patience plays an important role in the salvation of the soul. Realizing this, it is imperative that we understand what patience is not, what it is, what it accomplishes, and how it is acquired.
http://preachersfiles.com/patience/

And in case you need more referencing (the commentaries at the bottom of the page might help with more context): http://bible.cc/luke/21-19.htm
Note from asker:
I understand the concept but I am suprised that the author did not use the word eternal which he could have done. That is why I thought that perhaps soul could be used or some other word -- I don't think I can just the adjective eternal.
Thanks for your help David and for your help in kicking off a discussion.
Peer comment(s):
agree jmleger : I think it's eternal life indeed.
37 minutes
Thank you, jmleger. :)
agree Lisa McCreadie (X)
44 minutes
Thank you, Lisa. :)
disagree chaplin : la ie c'est maintenant et non pas la vie éternelle qui pour moi commence après la mort
5 heures
Merci, Ségolène. Je ne suis pas nécessairement d'avis contraire, même si selon la religion chrétienne, la "vie éternelle" est donnée par la mort du Christ, et non à la mort du croyant. Je pense que "soul" est la meilleure option.
disagree philgoddard : I'm with Ségolène - it doesn't say anything about "eternal".
5 heures
Thank you, phil. Please see comment to Ségolène. This was a loose translation, using my understanding of the original concept (soul) and trying to tie it together with "vie."
neutral Melissa McMahon : completely agree this is the implied sense, but think it should be left implicit
19 heures
Something went wrong...
12 minutes

survival

* SOS!
Something went wrong...
5 heures

gain salvation

salvation also implies soul
Something went wrong...
4 heures

lives


J'ai traduit beaucoup de documents religieux pour un Organisation Internationale.
Je cite ici à la Bible :
By your endurance you will gain your lives.

C'est le site le plus utilisé comme référence : http://bible.org/netbible/index.htm (ici Luke :21.19)

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Note added at 4 hrs (2011-03-16 22:02:55 GMT)
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Some playwrights know the Bible quite well ?! And I would assume that if they quote the Bible, they would have done researches.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2011-03-16 22:03:56 GMT)
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Some playwrights do know the Bible quite well.
I would also assume that if they quote the Bible, they would have done some researches.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2011-03-17 19:33:14 GMT)
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You are very welcome !!!
Note from asker:
Thanks Isabelle for the references, they helped with the whole project.
Something went wrong...
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