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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

trash

English translation:

the biggest sellout

Added to glossary by Peter Enright
May 12, 2006 02:34
18 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

trash

French to English Art/Literary Slang
Michel Houllebecq is described as 'l'auteur le plus trash de sa generation' who permits himself to be put on exhibit by the executives of a large publishing company (Hachette). It is clear he is permitting himself to be compromised by commercialism. Here, how should I translate 'trash': trashy, most prominent author for the trash generation, most prominent 'trash' author of his generation, etc? Thank you.
Proposed translations (English)
4 the biggest sellout
2 +5 anarchic
5 +1 the trashiest author of his generation
4 trash, trashy
4 what he writes is the biggest trash of his generation
3 example

Discussion

Julie Barber May 12, 2006:
http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/artists/tracey_emin.htm
Here's the artist I'm talking about. Yep some might think it's pure rubbish, but it's 'trash' in the sense that you're looking at....
Julie Barber May 12, 2006:
I really don't think it's 'trash' like 'rubbish'. Either they are talking about it as the 'trash culture' or more likely IMO trash like punk, no rules, raw, no limits with shock value etc. Know the UK artist Tracey Emin? a perfect example

Proposed translations

9 hrs
Selected

the biggest sellout

Trash = the segment of contemporary pop culture marked by "trash" like reality TV, fabricated pop stars, etc. Exhibitionism/commercialism is put above all else (artistic or intellectual quality).

I really think you have to look at the context of what "trash" has come to mean in France today. It isn't about being "trashy" as in English, it is about exposure and commercialism...the product might incidentally be trashy, but not always and not necessarily. "Trash" is more about the process than the product. The winners of shows like American Idol might be good musicians, but are considered trashy because of the process...Just like Houellebecq has been tainted by his mass-media marketing blitzes even if his work has literary merit.



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Note added at 3 days10 hrs (2006-05-15 13:18:31 GMT)
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Chappy and CMJ...Not so fast, I think you are both right and the only way to decide will be for the asker to ask the author what is meant. In addition to being considered "trash" for his relentless and cheesy stumping, H's work is also considered "trash" in the sense that it is in-your-face provocative (violence, sex...remindes me of Bret Easton Ellis and all the buzz he created with his early novels). One thing is for sure, that is "trash" is not referring to a lack of literary merit, here, IMO.

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Note added at 3 days10 hrs (2006-05-15 13:19:56 GMT)
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BTW, I still think anarchic is *way* too much of a leap but that *provocative* might be a good compromise.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Mmmm. Thank you for your considered answer. I think you are right; that 'trash' has two meanings: 'in-your-face provocative' and 'commercial sellout' a la American (and, I assure you, Australian) Idol. Incidentally, the wider context of this article is all about Houellebecq's sell-out ethos, so this may be the meaning of the word I go with."
+1
34 mins

the trashiest author of his generation

i'm pretty sure this does it...

bonne chance!
Note from asker:
Thank you
I did think of this, but am concerned this makes Houllebecq sound like a wrieter of poor quality, which he certainly is not. Instead, I suspect the subjects he deals with are 'trashy'.
Thank you for all your comments. I think CMJ's response is at the crux of the difficulty of understanding the word in English. On reflection and further research, there are certainly those who do think Hoellebecq's literary quality is rather poor!
Peer comment(s):
neutral CMJ_Trans (X) : the problem is that "trash" in English is used to describe a piece of work while in French it is used as an adjective rather than as a noun
3 hrs
true, but i thought it could be a good equivalent to give the general idea...
agree Julie Barber
5 hrs
merci, julie!
neutral Sara Freitas : agree w/CMJ...the point is that he is not trashy, per se. His work is considered literary in some circles...he is often criticized for being a one man marketing machine
10 hrs
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8 hrs

trash, trashy

l'auteur le plus trash de sa generation

==> The most "Trashy" (a writing style) author of his generation.
Note from asker:
Thank you. I liked this idea of capitalising the word 'Trashy' to link it to the movements of 'Trash' culture.
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11 hrs

example

I'm not putting this forward for points, just examples backing up Silt & Chappy.

I think that this is a really good link, talking about a singer-addict:

http://info.france2.fr/encadres/14324703-fr.php

Pourtant, avant d'être la coqueluche trash de ses fans, l'allumé de la scène rock, héroïnomane avéré et assumé, mannequin de circonstance pour le très rock couturier Heidi Slimane (Dior Homme) qui le photographie depuis plusieurs années et l'habille, Pete Doherty fut un bon élève - très doué, surtout en littératture -, gentil garçon qui passa la majeure partie de son enfance dans des bases où la famille suivait le père militaire

Aucun hasard à ce que Vanity Fair ait surnommé le couple infernal "les nouveaux Keith Richards et Anita Pallenberg du rock". Leur histoire d'amour rejoint celle des couples mythiques - quoique distroy - à la Sid Vicious-Nancy Spungen, Curt Cobain-Courtney Love voire à la Johnny Depp

They talk about him being 'trash' AND an icon....
ps: let it be noted, can't stand the guy myself!

Note from asker:
Thanks Julie. The link helped elucidate one of the senses carried by the word - yes, he does seem rather difficult to cope with! 'Chaotic', 'raw', 'confronting', 'anarchic' are all good.
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+5
6 hrs

anarchic

Just an idea.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2006-05-12 14:44:57 GMT)
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Hi Sara. Not really sure to be honest. I don't think there is a specific translation and I'm not very familiar with this "trash" concept. However, I am aware of the author which helps a little.

I did think along the lines of the Beatniks. Don't know why but it just came to mind. That said, I wouldn't know how much (if any) overlap exists between the Beatnik movement and MH.
Note from asker:
Yes, I like this sense. I particularly agree with Lewina.
Peer comment(s):
agree Julie Barber : yep, this is good too! as it's the general flavour. I had thought of chaotic & raw, but prefer yours!agree with Lewina for crude too
25 mins
agree Natasha Dupuy
1 hr
agree Lewina Giles (X) : I feel this is the closest idea. I interpret trash in this sense as a culture or a style, not as something sub-standard (i.e. rubbish). "raw" as mentioned also sounds good, somewhat crude even perhaps ?
3 hrs
agree Sara Freitas : Just discussed this with a H. reader = Agree with what your are saying, but how about "provocative" instead of "anarchic"?
4 hrs
agree Iulia Matei
19 hrs
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3 hrs

what he writes is the biggest trash of his generation

Go and have a look at this blog where they are talking precisely about what "trash" is of an author

http://pubstv.mesdiscussions.net/pubstv/BlaBla/C-quoi-votre-...

I reproduce a chunk of it here:

"" Le mot anglais "trash" n'a pas pour traduction "merde" ! "Déchets, ordures, poubelle, racaille..." si tu veux mais pas "merde".
2) Quand on utilise le mot "trash" en français, son sens est plus proche de "violent" ou "sale" que de "merde".
2) Le mot "trash" utilisé à propos de la littérature désigne un genre, un courant, une tendance... Et "trash-literature" ne signifie pas "littérature de merde" ! On pourrait dire "poubelle" parce que c'est plutôt de ce sens là que vient l'utilisation du mot "trash" mais en français, ça aurait une conotation "de merde" justement. Alors on dit "trash"... c'est un peu dommage mais bon...

Citation :

All right, so you're interested in trash. Let's start with a piece of trash you've probably heard of. John Grisham. Take any novel... well... except A Time to Die, that may or may not have some literary merit. Why are his novels trash? (Trash isn't necessarily a bad thing, but we have to make the distinction)

They're trash because they're essentially screenplays in novel form. No imagery, no attention to language and its subtleties, no profound character development. In fact, characters in such novels are generally meant to be stereotypical... then they're easier to picture, yes? Easier to picture means easier to read, and easier to read means easier to swallow up the plot. And be done with it. These plot-dominated prizes are chips and dip for the brain. ""


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Note added at 3 hrs (2006-05-12 06:08:26 GMT)
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of all his generation it is H that writes the biggest trash (and I would go along with that........)

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Note added at 3 hrs (2006-05-12 06:10:14 GMT)
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or the WORST trash

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Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2006-05-13 07:24:47 GMT)
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more night inspired ideas -

DOWNMARKET

LOW-BROW

TACKY

Sorry - I can't go along with the anarchic idea - I think it will be way above most readers heads and also is not in the same register as "trash"
Note from asker:
Thank you. Yes, this is a closely related concept, but probably not what was intended here. Indeed this is prob one of the meanings of this word, as a piece of slang it is not yet established in its meaning. Other possible meanings: anarchic, provocative, raw; also art that is commercially compromised. sell-out
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway
43 mins
disagree Julie Barber : don't agree with the meaning of 'rubbish'.....I mean that the answer reads as if we're talking about trash as in rubbish, which I don't think we are..:)
2 hrs
for heaven's sake - this was a quote from the web - not me speaking!
neutral Sara Freitas : Not sure that we are talking about his writing...more his incessant stumping and selling out for big advances!
7 hrs
I think you're right - yesterday I was running round after my tail and I reacted too fast to counter the other idea which I thought confusing - since then I've had time to reflect
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