Peter Close Oct 15, 2013:

I have now discovered what the company does. According to: www.greekafm.com/afm/999126543 ή δραστηριότητα της εταιρείας είναι: υπηρεσίες επισκευής τηλεφωνικών, τηλεομοιοτυπικών και συναφών συσκευών. Therefore, the reply I gave originally is incorrect, and I now suggest that it should be: Hellenic Telecommunication Equipment and Value Added Services Marketing Company S.A..

Andras Mohay (X) Oct 15, 2013:

@Peter Για πολλοστή φορά βλέπω αναφορά στον όρο "προϊόν" στα posts σου (08:13: μόνο "προϊόν", 09:14: ξανά-μανά περί "product" ο λόγος, 11:02: και πάλι σκάει μύτη "or τα προϊόντα"...) τη στιγμή που η εν λόγω επωνυμία έχει "(εμπορία...) ειδών" και η ερώτησή μου αναφέρεται ακριβώς στο "είδος", όχι στο "προϊόν". Το "προϊόν" κάλλιστα μπορεί να αναφέρεται σε (core ή value-aded) services, κανείς δεν υποστήριξε το αντίθετο!

Peter Close Oct 15, 2013:

Andras: I know this to be a fact because the words “είδη” and “προϊόντα” have been used to describe communication services in Greek language texts that I have translated for clients, which may or may not be available on the internet. I regret that I am unable to provide the passages from these texts because I have signed non-disclosure agreements with the clients concerned. You will therefore simply have to take my word for it.

Andras Mohay (X) Oct 15, 2013:

@Peter Συμφωνώ ότι συζητάμε για το σημασιολογικό περιεχόμενο κάποιων όρων.
Λες ότι "Telephone companies in Greece frequently refer to the core services that they provide as being “είδη”:

μπορείς να παραθέσεις μερικές από τις συχνές αναφορές όπου "εμπορία ειδών τηλεπικοινωνιών" αναφέρεται σε παροχή core services και όχι σε πώληση τηλεπικοινωνιακού υλικού (= εξοπλισμό);

Peter Close Oct 15, 2013:

Andras: Firstly, please note that I am neither disagreeing with you nor am I criticizing your answer. I am merely discussing my views with you. Now, how can you be so sure that the company does sell equipment and services? Telephone companies in Greece frequently refer to the core services that they provide as being “είδη” or “προϊόντα”, and the fact that the title says that it also provides value added services, naturally implies that it provides value added services in addition to core services. So, I come back to what I said earlier this morning in that, in order to translate the company’s name thoroughly properly in English, one has to know precisely what it does.

Andras Mohay (X) Oct 15, 2013:

@Peter Συμφωνώ μαζί σου: "είδη" σημαίνει εξοπλισμός (equipment) και "εμπορία ειδών" σημαίνει πώληση αντικειμένων, όχι διαμεσολάβηση υπηρεσιών, όπως εδώ:

2048α Εμπορία ειδών κεντρικής θέρμανσης (Λέβητες, καυστήρες αερίων καυσίμων ή πετρελαίου, κυκλοφορητές, θερμοσίφωνες και λοιπά ...

Η συγκεκριμένη εταιρεία δραστηριοποιείται ΚΑΙ στην παροχή υπηρεσιών. Το τι ακριβώς κάνει επί του παρόντος (ενδεχομένως μόνο παροχή υπ/σιών), είναι λογαριασμός δικός της: ο μεταφραστής καλείται να μεταφράσει την επωνυμία και μόνο.

Peter Close Oct 15, 2013:

Andras: I am afraid you have still not convinced me. Although “Telecommunication goods” may be the accepted official translation of “Είδη τηλεπικοινωνιών” in the EU, it depends greatly upon what is actually intended by “Είδη τηλεπικοινωνιών” in the text context, and, in any case, “telecommunication goods” is different from “telecommunication products”. Try Googling “telecommunication goods” with any browser. If you do, you will find that most of the websites of countries where English is the native spoken language use the term “telecommunication goods” to describe “telecommunications equipment”, and the few websites that don’t, do not clarify what they mean by the term.

Andras Mohay (X) Oct 15, 2013:

"είδη τηλεπικοινωνιών" είναι όρος της Ταξινόμησης της Νίκαιας, όπου αποδίδει αυτό που στην ίδια ταξινόμηση λέγεται "telecommunications goods" στα Αγγλικά (και "εμπόρευμα", "articles" σε διάφορες άλλες γλώσσες):

http://oami.europa.eu/ec2/term/9545827;jsessionid=4081992B30...

Ο σκοπός (αντικείμενο εργασιών) και κατ' επέκταση η επωνυμία μιας εταιρείας δεν συμπίπτουν πάντοτε με τις συγκεκριμένες δραστηριότητες που ασκεί: τα πρώτα συνήθως είναι πιο γενικά.

Peter Close Oct 15, 2013:

Andras: You are perfectly correct in telling me that the text refers to “Ειδών”, rather than “Προϊόντων”. Thank you for pointing this out to me. However, I don’t think that this changes matters much. The main point that I was trying to make was that, in English, we would not call telephone, facsimile or internet services, “products”, we would call them, “services”, and although an English speaker may talk about “marketing communication services”, he would not describe the activity as “trading in communication services”. I therefore expressed the opinion that it was important to consider what the main scope and function of the Greek company was when trying to translate its title accurately in English.

Andras Mohay (X) Oct 15, 2013:

ουδέν προς Διόνυσον "translating “προϊόντα” as “products”, would not be accurate in English"

Το Google μού βγάζει "είδη", όχι "προϊόντα@.

Peter Close Oct 15, 2013:

Further to my discussion entry of yesterday, I think that one of the most import considerations when thinking of an accurate translation of the Greek name of the company is to know precisely what it sells and/or what services it provides. In Greek, the word “προϊόντα” is used to by companies such as Forthnet, Vodafone, Wind and Cosmote to describe telephone, facsimile and internet services, whereas, in English, the words, “telecommunication products”, would be used to describe appliances such as telephones, fax machines and modems. Therefore, if the “products” referred to in the title are telephone, facsimile or internet services, translating “προϊόντα” as “products”, would not be accurate in English.

Peter Close Oct 14, 2013:

The term “converged communication services” exists in Greek. In Greek, it is, “συγκλίνουσες υπηρεσίες επικοινωνιών”. [However, it is probable that the Greek term must simply have originated as a translation of the English term and have become adopted into the Greek language quite recently. The Greek term may therefore not have existed when the founders of the Greek company concerned drafted it’s articles of association].The services that the Greek name of the company in your text details can be described collectively and succinctly in English as being “converged communication services” as the example in http://www.it.northwestern.edu/telephone/converge/converged-... confirms. However, since the Greek name is written long-windedly rather than succinctly, you may prefer to translate the name more literally in this instance.