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This question was closed without grading. Reason: Keine hilfreiche Antwort
Feb 10, 2017 12:30
7 yrs ago
Deutsch term

dem Nutzen überlegen

Deutsch > Englisch Medizin Medizin (allgemein) Risk assessment
From a risk/benefit analysis for a treatment: Das Risiko dem die Patienten im Rahmen dieser Studie ausgesetzt sind, ist somit dem Nutzen überlegen.

Does this mean that the risk outweighs the benefit? It is important to be sure!
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Susanne Schiewe

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Discussion

Stephen Old (asker) Feb 12, 2017:
dem Nutzen überlegen Thanks to all those who contributed to this discussion. The German phraseology used here was quite unusual; "das Risiko ist dem Nutzen überlegen" instead of "dem Nutzen überwiegen." This was the nub of the problems and I am sorry if I caused more confusion by omitting the comma after "Risiko." I was rushing to meet my deadline for submitting the translation. As nobody has actually submitted an answer, rather than a contribution to the discussion, I might have to close the question without grading soon.
Katja Dienemann Feb 11, 2017:
@Björn: passive structure in German Due to the "somit", I suppose the passive structure is what best fits in the context/regarding the logic/argumentation of the preceding sentence.

Though the sense is not easy to gasp when you first read this sentence, this impersonal style is quite typical for medical (trial) texts, e.g.
- Ein Nutzen für das Kind kann somit u. U. bejaht werden und die Risiko-Nutzen Analyse würde allenfalls, abhängig vom konkreten Fall, positiv ausfallen.
- Bei HET aus symptomatischer Indikation ist auf eine bestmögliche Einstellung evtl. vorhandener Risikofaktoren zu achten.

Welcome in the German medical world!
Wendy Streitparth Feb 11, 2017:
Thanks Björn! Leichte Besserung in Sicht...
Björn Vrooman Feb 10, 2017:
Hope you get well soon.

Wish the weather would improve...
Wendy Streitparth Feb 10, 2017:
Thanks, Steffen. Alles klar. Habe eigentlich gewußt, daß ich mit Fieber wahrscheinlich daneben liege, wenn keine der deutschen Kollegen den Punkt aufgreifen. Danke auch an Dir Björn. Werde ich ausprobieren, wenn ich wieder bei Sinnen bin!
Björn Vrooman Feb 10, 2017:
@Wendy

To underline something, you can use "u" (start) and "/u" (end), each surrounded by these symbols: <> (can't replicate it here; else, it'd just underline my words...)

@Steffen
I wouldn't introduce a preposition at the end of the object - makes it longer than it needs to be, IMHO (not to mention that you already have "enrolled in"). What about:
"The risk to patients..."

Or just rework the sentence by starting with study, researchers or there, similarly to what they did here:
"An independent monitoring board, which regularly reviewed the findings, concluded that there were more risks than benefits among the group using combined HRT, compared with the placebo group."
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/med/estrogen-eng.php

Interested in yours or Katja's opinion (as I don't have much experience in the medical field): I think the passive structure is a bit curious - it sounds so impersonal and universally valid, even though it's probably not (i.e., different researchers may come to different conclusions). But maybe it's just because I don't have the rest of the document.
Katja Dienemann Feb 10, 2017:
@Wendy: Ja, hier fehlt das Komma Klar, müsste bei dem Relativsatz ein Komma stehen "Das Risiko, (Komma) dem die Patienten ausgesetzt sind, ...
Steffen Walter Feb 10, 2017:
Nein Die Patienten (Plural) sind dem Risiko ausgesetzt.
Wendy Streitparth Feb 10, 2017:
Ist sowieso ein fragwürdiges Deutsch. Müsste es nicht heissen "das Risiko, dem..... ausgesetzt ist? Sorry - weiß nicht wie ich in diesem Kästchen unterstreichen kann. Aber ist unterstrichen.
Steffen Walter Feb 10, 2017:
Agree ... ... with Anne: 'überlegen' = 'superior' is inappropriate here.
beermatt Feb 10, 2017:
@Anne Schulz Yes, quite definitely, it's a rather sorry way of expressing things, but don't we know that from science people?
Still, there's no doubt about it.
Anne Schulz Feb 10, 2017:
Inappropriate choice of word, but I can only concur with the colleagues: "den Nutzen überwiegen/outweigh the benefit(s)" must be the intended meaning.
Steffen Walter Feb 10, 2017:
Sure ... ... but my suggestion was merely a response to beermatt's entry, in which 'are exposed to' was missing.
beermatt Feb 10, 2017:
Thanks to Steffen Walter, I noticed my omission myself once I saw it displayed...
Stephen Old (asker) Feb 10, 2017:
Thanks, Steffen. I know that I have to translate "the risks that they are exposed to." I just wanted to be sure i had understood "überlegen" correctly in this context.
Stephen Old (asker) Feb 10, 2017:
dem Nutzen überlegen Thanks Katja. This is why I asked the question - because this statement did not seem to fit in with the general tone of clinical reports!
Steffen Walter Feb 10, 2017:
Addition "The risk patients enrolled in this study/trial are exposed to thus outweighs the benefits"
beermatt Feb 10, 2017:
Yes, your assumption is correct. "The risk patients participating in this study are exposed to thus outweighs the benefits"
Steffen Walter Feb 10, 2017:
Agree The risk is greater/higher than (i.e. outweighs) the benefit.
Katja Dienemann Feb 10, 2017:
IMO: Correct Although this is probably not the result the researchers wanted... it can happen

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1490308/
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