| Σελίδες για το θέμα: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | KudoZ release: discussion area and other improvements Αποστολέας σε συζήτηση: Enrique Cavalitto
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| Has the (separate) discussion box now been eliminated? | Aug 15, 2008 |
I no longer see any 'discussion' slot listed under questions. Has it been removed?
| | | | Jack Doughty 
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 03:31
Ρωσικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
Εις μνήμην | I'm still seeing it | Aug 15, 2008 |
Just looked it up on the latest posted question, and it's still there for me (fourth in the top line of seven boxes).
| | | | | I see 6 boxes only. No discussion option | Aug 15, 2008 |
Jack Doughty wrote:
Just looked it up on the latest posted question, and it's still there for me (fourth in the top line of seven boxes).
I definitely only see 6 boxes under questions I look at. Maybe it's just been hidden from me.
| | | | Mauricio Zoch
Αργεντινή
Local time: 00:31
Αγγλικά σε Τουρκικά
+ ...
| Discuss button | Aug 15, 2008 |
writeaway wrote:
Jack Doughty wrote:
Just looked it up on the latest posted question, and it's still there for me (fourth in the top line of seven boxes).
I definitely only see 6 boxes under questions I look at. Maybe it's just been hidden from me.
Press the Discuss button right next to the Answer button, that box only appears when it have one or more entries
Or if you have a block in the "Ask the asker" (Clarification), you can't start or participate in a discussion.
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| I had the discussion box up to now | Aug 15, 2008 |
Mauricio Zoch wrote:
writeaway wrote:
Jack Doughty wrote:
Just looked it up on the latest posted question, and it's still there for me (fourth in the top line of seven boxes).
I definitely only see 6 boxes under questions I look at. Maybe it's just been hidden from me.
Press the Discuss button right next to the Answer button, that box only appears when it have one or more entries
Or if you have a block in the "Ask the asker" (Clarification), you can't start or participate in a discussion.
I had access to the discussion box up to now. However that has been removed but the request clarification box is still there. What does discussion have to do with it anyway? Discussion is a brand new feature, even if it is geographically in the same location.
[Edited at 2008-08-15 16:35]
| | | | Kim Metzger
Μεξικό
Local time: 21:31
Γερμανικά σε Αγγλικά
| Amnesty for past "abusers"? | Aug 15, 2008 |
Mauricio Zoch wrote:
Or if you have a block in the "Ask the asker" (Clarification), you can't start or participate in a discussion.
Hi Mauricio - as several members have noted, the Ask the asker field was "abused" by many in the past, and enforcement varied from one language pair to another. Some moderators cracked down on any misuse as defined by the rules, i.e. deleting anything that wasn't strictly connected with asking the asker to clarify the question, add context, etc. and then blocking repeat offenders from using it at all. Other moderators were much more laissez faire in this regard.
Under these circumstances, do you think it is fair to block a person from using the discussion field just because he's been blocked from using the AtA field?
| | | | Mauricio Zoch
Αργεντινή
Local time: 00:31
Αγγλικά σε Τουρκικά
+ ...
| Administrative actions | Aug 15, 2008 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
Mauricio Zoch wrote:
Or if you have a block in the "Ask the asker" (Clarification), you can't start or participate in a discussion.
Hi Mauricio - as several members have noted, the Ask the asker field was "abused" by many in the past, and enforcement varied from one language pair to another. Some moderators cracked down on any misuse as defined by the rules, i.e. deleting anything that wasn't strictly connected with asking the asker to clarify the question, add context, etc. and then blocking repeat offenders from using it at all. Other moderators were much more laissez faire in this regard.
Under these circumstances, do you think it is fair to block a person from using the discussion field just because he's been blocked from using the AtA field?
For the time being, all administrative actions will be common for the "clarifications" ("ask the asker") and the discussion board. The same will apply to actions related to Answers and Reference posts.
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2008-08-15 20:31]
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Αργεντινή
Local time: 00:31
Μέλος από 2006
Αγγλικά σε Ισπανικά
ΞΕΚΙΝΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ | Clarification on administrative actions | Aug 15, 2008 |
Further clarifying what Mauricio posted above, if a user has a block related to the "ask the asker" feature, this block will also apply to the discussions feature. It will not prevent the user from posting answers or reference posts.
On the same line, a block on the rights to answer will prevent the user from posting reference entries but will not affect the usage of the ask-the-asker or discussions areas.
Regards,
Enrique
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Jack Doughty
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 03:31
Ρωσικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
Εις μνήμην | Can't reply to clarification request | Aug 16, 2008 |
I just asked a German-English question in which an entry has been made under "clarification request", but I can't see any way to reply to it. Unlike the page shown to answerers with its multiplicity of buttons, I only see three here: Grade below, Ca... See more I just asked a German-English question in which an entry has been made under "clarification request", but I can't see any way to reply to it. Unlike the page shown to answerers with its multiplicity of buttons, I only see three here: Grade below, Cancel and Close.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/furniture_household_appliances/2767196-beetschale.html
After I had graded the question, the buttons went up to six, including "Provide clarification".
[Edited at 2008-08-16 18:30] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mauricio Zoch
Αργεντινή
Local time: 00:31
Αγγλικά σε Τουρκικά
+ ...
| mediamatrix (X)
Local time: 00:31
Ισπανικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
| Urgent proposal: Make the discussion box open permanently | Aug 28, 2008 |
I'm reactivating this thread in the light of a nasty 'incident' that happened yesterday.
After answering a question in the spa-eng pair, I was the target of a personal attack from another answerer. That person's comments were first posted under my answer and then repeated under his own answer (to which I had given a 'neutral' with a comment about native English usage).
I contacted a moderator and the comments under both questions were promptly hidden. So far so good..... See more I'm reactivating this thread in the light of a nasty 'incident' that happened yesterday.
After answering a question in the spa-eng pair, I was the target of a personal attack from another answerer. That person's comments were first posted under my answer and then repeated under his own answer (to which I had given a 'neutral' with a comment about native English usage).
I contacted a moderator and the comments under both questions were promptly hidden. So far so good...
However, on returning to the question to add a note under my answer I happened to notice that someone had started a discussion. Being curious I opened the discussion box and, lo and behold, I discovered that the other answerer had re-posted his libellous comments in there - adding further insults about my professionalism and accusing me of dishonesty.
I immediately contacted the moderator again and (with some difficulty, it seems) she had the comments removed.
But the fact is that those comments were posted for several hours - long enough to be crawled by Google & friends - and they may, for all I know, be out there on the web for public scrutiny.
My concerns, derived from this incident, are threefold:
- Being hidden by default means that the discussion box can serve as a 'semi-secret repository' for inflammatory comments - stuff that would never be acceptable under site rules - for at least as long as it takes for someone to complain (like I did yesterday). Lots of other illicit - or illegal - uses come to mind - posting links to child pornography sites, for example.
- I can see no valid reason for hiding the discussion box - at least after it has received a first post. The discussion is an integral part of the information on the KudoZ page and should be shown to all visitors at all times. More importantly, in the context of my experience yesterday: the more people who see it the greater the chance of someone spotting rule violations and having offensive content removed.
- Until such time as such hidden (mis)information is discovered and removed it (presumably) is likely to be indexed by web-crawlers and remain in the public domain for a long period of time. That would be prejudicial to the interests of the individual under attack - and also to Proz.com as a company.
As mentioned already, yesterday's incident has been resolved thanks to the efforts of the moderator.
Now, I venture to suggest some changes to the KudoZ page to minimize the risk of such mis-use of the new features happening again. As a first step, I propose that the discussion box should be 'open' permanently (if it has at least one post).
As far as I can recall, this discussion box is the only feature on the entire site that is 'hidden by default' - except areas such as forums that can be hidden by a user because they are of no interest (e.g. I never see the Welsh-language forum because I will never participate in it and it's extremely unlikely that anyone will post anything there that concerns me). In contrast, the KudoZ discussion box is hidden by default even though it probably contains information I will be interested in (because I've already shown interest in the question) - and, worse, it may (as yesterday) contain defamatory statements that could easily go un-noticed.
I also suggest that all participants in a question - the asker, those seeking 'clarification', those who have posted in the discussion, those who have provided answers or references, should all (by default) receive e-mail notification of discussion posts. If I had received an e-mail about yesterday's libellous post as soon as it had been submitted by that 'other user' it would have been removed several hours earlier and the risk of damage to my and Proz.com's reputation reduced accordingly.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
MediaMatrix ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stéphanie Soudais (X)
Γαλλία
Local time: 04:31
Αγγλικά σε Γαλλικά
| a few weeks passed | Sep 5, 2008 |
Hi,
After a few weeks, this is how I see the whole thing:
- I agree that the "reference" box is a good idea. In my pair there used to be so many "comment-only-not-for-grading answers"; now they disappeared and it is a good thing.
However, I often confuse this box with the answers displayed above, maybe because the box title "Reference comments" is not that visible.
- I keep thinking that having two different boxes - i.e. "clarification" and "di... See more Hi,
After a few weeks, this is how I see the whole thing:
- I agree that the "reference" box is a good idea. In my pair there used to be so many "comment-only-not-for-grading answers"; now they disappeared and it is a good thing.
However, I often confuse this box with the answers displayed above, maybe because the box title "Reference comments" is not that visible.
- I keep thinking that having two different boxes - i.e. "clarification" and "discussion" - is not necessary, is useless, is confusing :
Some people do not see/read the discussion and then give an inappropriate answer. Sometimes you first ask for clarification and little by little you start to dicsuss with the asker about the linguistics or the structure of the text. Should you say then "excuse me but now I will carry on in the "discussion box"?
In the meantime, other people might already have started to discuss in the "discussion box" (sometimes about the same thing than in the clarification box, so it becomes a real mess).
As a frequent asker and answerer of KudoZ, I find this quite disconcerting, because it is like following two discussions. I cannot see why/how these two new boxes can/should be an improvement to the old "ask the asker" box. I think a single box is enough.
Any other feedback ?
Stéphanie ▲ Collapse
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Jack Doughty
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 03:31
Ρωσικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
Εις μνήμην | Agree, the simpler the better | Sep 5, 2008 |
I am often puzzled as to which button I should use to add something other than an answer. I've opposed the whole thing from the beginning, of course, and still do, but from where we are now, Stéphanie's suggestion seems a sensible one.
I also don't understand why the notifications - for "clarification request", I think - give you no idea what it is but just tell you there's been one, followed by two squiggly lines with a gap between them, What is the logic in that?
Another minor b... See more I am often puzzled as to which button I should use to add something other than an answer. I've opposed the whole thing from the beginning, of course, and still do, but from where we are now, Stéphanie's suggestion seems a sensible one.
I also don't understand why the notifications - for "clarification request", I think - give you no idea what it is but just tell you there's been one, followed by two squiggly lines with a gap between them, What is the logic in that?
Another minor but mildly irritating point: I do not need to be told with every notification, maybe 100 times a day, that "Good answers and KudoZ PRO points in your fields of expertise, a strong profile and membership are winning strategies at ProZ.com." Would it be possible to opt out of this? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stéphanie Soudais (X)
Γαλλία
Local time: 04:31
Αγγλικά σε Γαλλικά
| Other things I don't like | Sep 5, 2008 |
Regarding the discussion box, I don't like :
- the fact that we MUST enter a title (or am I wrong ?), which is totally useless and takes too much space
- the fact that each contribution comes into its own little box...in the end, the discussion is quite compartmentalized, not very "fluid"
- the fact that when there is more that 3-4 replies, you need to scroll down to read the last ones. I would rather have an overall view as in the "clarification box", with no boundaries... See more Regarding the discussion box, I don't like :
- the fact that we MUST enter a title (or am I wrong ?), which is totally useless and takes too much space
- the fact that each contribution comes into its own little box...in the end, the discussion is quite compartmentalized, not very "fluid"
- the fact that when there is more that 3-4 replies, you need to scroll down to read the last ones. I would rather have an overall view as in the "clarification box", with no boundaries between contributions.
- the countdown "Automatic update in 00:59" below the discussion box. Is this really of any use ?
Stéphanie
[Edited at 2008-09-05 14:33] ▲ Collapse
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