| Σελίδες για το θέμα: [1 2] > | Posting proposed translations in "discussion" rather than submitting Answers Αποστολέας σε συζήτηση: Kristina Love
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Kristina Love 
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 02:54
Ισπανικά σε Αγγλικά
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I'm new to using the KudoZ system, and have only been awarded points once so far. I've never asked a question, but I am trying to contribute answers as often as I can, because I know it's the key to moving up in the directory which is one of the major factors of success on ProZ.
I'm puzzled by something I noticed happen a few times recently. Very experienced translators, who have already racked up a million KudoZ points, will give their answers in the discussion area, rather than s... See more I'm new to using the KudoZ system, and have only been awarded points once so far. I've never asked a question, but I am trying to contribute answers as often as I can, because I know it's the key to moving up in the directory which is one of the major factors of success on ProZ.
I'm puzzled by something I noticed happen a few times recently. Very experienced translators, who have already racked up a million KudoZ points, will give their answers in the discussion area, rather than submitting an Answer.
There are relatively few KudoZ questions available, and they're the key to everything!
What could be the reason why someone who has a very likely reliable Answer would choose not to submit an Answer? Perhaps points don't matter so much to them, because they are already on the first page of the directory, and they contribute to the discussions just because they enjoy doing so.
But this removes the precious few chances that other translators could have for winning KudoZ points. When a very experienced translator proposes a translation in a discussion, I immediately feel that there is not much point in trying to answer that question. Even if I do my own research, I feel I'd be seen as stealing the answers from the discussion area.
If they submit their Answers, I can either agree with them, or compete with my own answer and feel that at least I'm in the game and have a chance.
But it's maddening that they don't care to try for the points, but shut down the "competition" before it even begins, eliminating that question from my consideration. Is this a purposeful competitive strategy? Just an oversight? Or something else?
Can anyone else relate to what I'm saying? Does this make sense? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Beijer
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 07:54
Μέλος από 2009
Ολλανδικά σε Αγγλικά
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| All is fair in love and KudoZ. | Jul 16, 2021 |
There are a few old-timers who have become disenchanted with the whole thing over the years and do it as sort of a passive-aggressive protest. Odd, but I am pretty sure this is the reason sometimes.
Another reason may be that they already have zillions of points so they figure they might as well let a newbie get a few points, but not without showing everyone how smart they are
My recommendation is to just ... See more There are a few old-timers who have become disenchanted with the whole thing over the years and do it as sort of a passive-aggressive protest. Odd, but I am pretty sure this is the reason sometimes.
Another reason may be that they already have zillions of points so they figure they might as well let a newbie get a few points, but not without showing everyone how smart they are
My recommendation is to just post your answer, even if it is exactly the same, and get the points. If you want to be polite say something like, 'Why not post that, you'd have my agree!', and if they decline, or don't respond (fast enough), just post it yourself.
Points are points at the end of the day, and as you said, they boost you up the rankings. If you want/need to work your way up (as you are just starting out/having a family to feed, etc.) ... All is fair in love and KudoZ, iyam.
Michael ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kristina Love
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 02:54
Ισπανικά σε Αγγλικά
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ΞΕΚΙΝΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ | OK, hope you have my back! | Jul 16, 2021 |
All I needed was a little encouragement.
OK, I'm pretty sure people are going to think I'm a ****heel, but I'm going to go for it as you suggested.
I hope if I get lambasted I can count on you to rally to my defense!
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Please forgive me because I have sinned. I’ve never been a points-grabber (even so I have been the Kudoz leader in my language combinations a few times). When I joined Proz in 2007 I already had a solid client base and what interested me was engaging with other translators (I worked in-house for 20 years and I missed the camaraderie). Every time I’ve used the comments in the discussion area my idea wasn't “to shut down the competition” but to help the asker. My competitors are free and w... See more Please forgive me because I have sinned. I’ve never been a points-grabber (even so I have been the Kudoz leader in my language combinations a few times). When I joined Proz in 2007 I already had a solid client base and what interested me was engaging with other translators (I worked in-house for 20 years and I missed the camaraderie). Every time I’ve used the comments in the discussion area my idea wasn't “to shut down the competition” but to help the asker. My competitors are free and welcome to use my suggestion(s) if they so choose.
[Edited at 2021-07-17 14:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Michael Beijer wrote:
There are a few old-timers who have become disenchanted with the whole thing over the years and do it as sort of a passive-aggressive protest. Odd, but I am pretty sure this is the reason sometimes.
Another reason may be that they already have zillions of points so they figure they might as well let a newbie get a few points, but not without showing everyone how smart they are
My recommendation is to just post your answer, even if it is exactly the same, and get the points. If you want to be polite say something like, 'Why not post that, you'd have my agree!', and if they decline, or don't respond (fast enough), just post it yourself.
Points are points at the end of the day, and as you said, they boost you up the rankings. If you want/need to work your way up (as you are just starting out/having a family to feed, etc.) ... All is fair in love and KudoZ, iyam.
Michael
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I often answer in the discussion because I do not have the time to substantiate my answer.
If I posted it as an answer people would still not be able to put the same answer
At the end of the day, if I am kindly putting the right answer in whatever form, what is the problem?
| | | | Kristina Love
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 02:54
Ισπανικά σε Αγγλικά
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ΞΕΚΙΝΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ
Thanks for that insight from the perspective of one who knows first-hand, Teresa. All that you said is quite understandable. It puts my mind at ease that you don't mind if others duplicate your answers for points if you don't want them. I'm hopeful that others feel the same.
I do think the priority is to help the Asker. Ideally, we're all acting in concert to ensure that they get the most accurate answer that's within our collective abilities. So if the seasoned professionals have... See more Thanks for that insight from the perspective of one who knows first-hand, Teresa. All that you said is quite understandable. It puts my mind at ease that you don't mind if others duplicate your answers for points if you don't want them. I'm hopeful that others feel the same.
I do think the priority is to help the Asker. Ideally, we're all acting in concert to ensure that they get the most accurate answer that's within our collective abilities. So if the seasoned professionals have the time and interest to chime in, it's a net win for everyone, including newer translators like me who can try to learn from their responses.
All the same...It sure would be nice to have some points. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Stop focusing on KudoZ points... | Jul 17, 2021 |
Dear Kristina,
I have been reading your threads on Kudoz issues with keen interest since your registration on ProZ website.
But please stop focusing on your KudoZ performances since most of agencies dragging translators here no longer pay attention to the number of KudoZ points displayed on your profile.
It’s quite logical for an outsourcer: the more you devote time at posting proposed translations on KudoZ forum and chasing KudoZ points, the less you dev... See more Dear Kristina,
I have been reading your threads on Kudoz issues with keen interest since your registration on ProZ website.
But please stop focusing on your KudoZ performances since most of agencies dragging translators here no longer pay attention to the number of KudoZ points displayed on your profile.
It’s quite logical for an outsourcer: the more you devote time at posting proposed translations on KudoZ forum and chasing KudoZ points, the less you devote time for your own job as a translator... which means you still are on stand by for upcoming assignments.
That’s the vicious side of the medal.
I know here - and you hopefully may encounter on your side - many seasoned translators with high level of proficiency into their language pair or their field of experience who don’t need to chase KudoZ points to get steadily a lot of work and earn their life very decently, even more than you could imagine for some of them. For those one, KudoZ forum is just a short span of time to relax between two assignments.
To put it in a nutshell, you don’t need to chase KudoZ points to start working in the very competitive and merciless world of translation. Period!
As President Obama said in his last memories: “Suck it up. Tighten your laces. Cut your rations. And keep moving...” (in The Promised Land, end of chap. 11).
I would just add: good luck!
[Modifié le 2021-07-17 18:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Kristina Love
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 02:54
Ισπανικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
ΞΕΚΙΝΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ
Hi Laurent,
I think there is an abundance of emphasis all over this website underscoring how instrumental KudoZ points are, since they are the sole way of moving up in the directory, which is where the vast majority of jobs come from through KudoZ. Who's right and who's wrong? At this point it's too early for me to tell.
I thought there were some extremely convincing arguments made in the thread "Is it possible to ear... See more Hi Laurent,
I think there is an abundance of emphasis all over this website underscoring how instrumental KudoZ points are, since they are the sole way of moving up in the directory, which is where the vast majority of jobs come from through KudoZ. Who's right and who's wrong? At this point it's too early for me to tell.
I thought there were some extremely convincing arguments made in the thread "Is it possible to earn KudoZ points without experience?" https://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/351295-is_it_possible_to_earn_kudoz_without_experience.html
Most convincing of all was the point that if your aim is to move up in the directory, it's NOT worth it to earn KudoZ points, because nobody ever looks past the first or second page of a directory and it would be absolutely impossible for me to catch up to the people who currently occupy those positions until I've been in it as long as they have. And possibly they would also need to die first!
I really haven't made more than one post in this forum about KudoZ (and one more very quick one), so when you say you've been reading all my threads I wonder if you are confusing me with someone else.
I haven't been in the forums a whole bunch, but I've been active answering KudoZ questions for maybe a couple of weeks, which is when I paid for membership and decided to dive deep into this site and try to really do some intense research (I mean about the site - but practicing research skills by answering KudoZ question is also a workout for my brain and makes me feel like I am doing something productive that will be to my advantage somehow or other.) I've been registered on the site for well over a year at least, but wasn't too active before.
I'm curious as to why you now feel that outsourcers don't care about KudoZ points or don't look at that, when you took essentially the opposite viewpoint on the other thread (linked above)? Has something happened to change your mind?
If nothing else, the paid membership makes it possible to get total confirmation that participating on KudoZ increases my visibility. I can see the metrics and the number of visits to my profile more or less exploded because of that. I went from 14 visits to about 300 visits in quite a short period of time.
That said, you have a point that spending lots of time answering KudoZ questions has the potential to A) waste my time and B) give the impression that I have too much time on my hands because nobody wants to give me work because I suck! Right at the moment though, these possible pitfalls do not concern me at all. I am exploring, researching, trying things out, and learning a lot. I don't care if people know I'm spending time on research. They could just as easily see that in a positive light: I'm giving a view to my working thought process, and showing that I'm thorough and diligent.
I still need time to set myself up so I am not going hard after work yet. In the meantime I am enjoying the learning process. Thanks for the tips and well-wishes!
[Edited at 2021-07-17 22:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michele Fauble
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 00:54
Μέλος από 2006
Νορβηγικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
| Later searches | Jul 18, 2021 |
Ice Scream wrote:
I often answer in the discussion because I do not have the time to substantiate my answer.
If I posted it as an answer people would still not be able to put the same answer
At the end of the day, if I am kindly putting the right answer in whatever form, what is the problem?
Thanks for the explanation. I’ve always wondered why. The issue I have is that the answer does not get added to the glossary. If I, or someone else, in the future do a search for a term that you have provided in the discussion box, will we be able to find it?
I also think it is important that answers are backed up by references.
| | | | Kristina Love
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 02:54
Ισπανικά σε Αγγλικά
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ΞΕΚΙΝΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ | Better something than nothing | Jul 18, 2021 |
I can understand people not having time to provide references, but their idea may still be helpful.
There is nothing wrong with submitting an Answer with whatever you have, even if it's skimpy. There is a chance that it may turn out to be the most helpful answer or lead someone else to find a more helpful answer or provide more reinforcement for your suggestion.
In reading the KudoZ rules last night, I noticed that it is permissible to submit an Answer identical to som... See more I can understand people not having time to provide references, but their idea may still be helpful.
There is nothing wrong with submitting an Answer with whatever you have, even if it's skimpy. There is a chance that it may turn out to be the most helpful answer or lead someone else to find a more helpful answer or provide more reinforcement for your suggestion.
In reading the KudoZ rules last night, I noticed that it is permissible to submit an Answer identical to someone else's, with different/more explanation and/or references.
So just because you don't have time to do much research, that needn't prevent you from giving whatever ideas you do have as an Answer.
But now that I know you can use someone's answer even if they DID submit an answer, provided you contribute a bit more on your own, I won't hesitate to submit Answers that are similar to suggestions proffered in the discussion forum.
I didn't want to seem impolite, but since some people are just interested and want to help and not necessarily of a disposition to submit an Answer for whatever reason, now I feel comfortable in assuming that they are not offended if I submit an Answer that's similar to their idea. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | KudoZ huntering is like ghosts chasing... | Jul 18, 2021 |
Kristina Love wrote:
I think there is an abundance of emphasis all over this website underscoring how instrumental KudoZ points are, since they are the sole way of moving up in the directory, which is where the vast majority of jobs come from through KudoZ. Who's right and who's wrong? At this point it's too early for me to tell.
I beg to disagree with you: if indeed collecting and accumulating KudoZ points is the sole way of moving up the Directory, it's wrong to contend that the vast majority of jobs come through Kudoz, nor even they come from the Directory.
The ProZ Directory is not the Alpha and Omega of the Translation World. And fortunately it never will!
The only way to get assignments from agencies consists in answering their tenders displayed into the Job Offer forum depending on your language pair and your proper fields of proficiency.
As I told you above, being a Kudoz points leader and having your profile displayed on the top list of the Directory doesn't make you the best translator ever! Sure, you will likely get some offers from agencies, but not more than if your profile was lagging at the very bottom of the Directory.
I can assure you that my sole petty 56 KudoZ points (which is quite a poor score, but what I'm not ashamed of...) don't keep me from being approached by several agencies, often more than I'd need.
I know I'm not the only one here expressing this opinion. We all are translators first, not KudoZ hunters. Translator is a profession in the real life. KudoZ huntering is like ghosts chasing...
Best to you!
[Modifié le 2021-07-18 20:59 GMT]
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Kristina Love
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 02:54
Ισπανικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
ΞΕΚΙΝΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ | Ok, KudoZ isn't everything, but probably helps | Jul 18, 2021 |
Laurent,
You never answered my question about why you have changed your mind and are now saying the opposite of what you said on the other thread. To quote what you said on the other thread (https://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/351295-is_it_possible_to_earn_kudoz_without_experience.html):
"I mean agencies what are used... See more Laurent,
You never answered my question about why you have changed your mind and are now saying the opposite of what you said on the other thread. To quote what you said on the other thread (https://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/351295-is_it_possible_to_earn_kudoz_without_experience.html):
"I mean agencies what are used to screening and searching for proper profiles for their projects on the ProZ Directory are tempted to mainly direct their choice to the most KudoZ earned translator, who is not necessary the most seasoned one in a particular technical field of proficiency.
Chasing and accumulating KudoZ points day in day out should never be sufficient to make you the most proficient translator to work on a given project. But, it is though... Desperately."
You also said, "Even though I always enjoy sharing my humble contributions on KudoZ forum, as steadily as I can in my language pair, like the most of us I presume, I must confess that I find it this kind of arbitrary selection from agencies or outsourcers a bit discouraging indeed..."
If I am misunderstanding what you meant, please let me know, but it sounded to me like you were then saying that outsourcers are indeed (unfortunately/erroneously) attracted to translators with lots of KudoZ points. And it sounds like now you are taking the contrary position. I'm just wondering why?
Regarding your most recent comment (from which I'd like to quote a section but have forgotten how to do that properly in a forum)...
I beg to disagree with you: if indeed collecting and accumulating KudoZ points is the sole way of moving up the Directory, it's wrong to claim that the vast majority of jobs come through Kudoz, nor even they come from the Directory.
The ProZ Directory is not the Alpha and Omega of the Translation World. And fortunately it never will!
The only way to get assignments from agencies consists in answering their tenders displayed into the Job Offer forum depending on your language pair and your proper fields of proficiency.
Very recently I read an article on ProZ explaining that there are in fact several ways to improve your directory ranking, and KudoZ is just one of them, but I still tend to think it's one of the most effective ways. So I misspoke when I said it was the "sole way" to do this.
My remark about the majority of assignments being won through outsourcers looking through the directory wasn't based on just my opinion: I have watched a couple of videos on this site about "getting the most out of ProZ" that say this. In fact, one video I watched said that quoting for jobs listed in the area where jobs are posted soliciting quotes is actually a very bad bet in terms of actually winning an assignment. It said that most of the time that won't work. I'm sure it is helpful if they do keep your information on file for future possibilities, but that can be better done by applying to the agency.
I'm just summarizing what I've learned so far in my exploration of ProZ. I don't know from personal experience. So you may be right.
I certainly believe you that the directory ranking isn't the end-all-be-all when it comes to getting translation work, but come to that, ProZ itself isn't the end-all-be-all, either. But I know it must be useful, because there are some who do no marketing in any other way other than through ProZ! It's not necessary of course, but so helpful.
I have been observing that many translators express viewpoints that sound extremely credible and well-founded, yet they all disagree with each other on some fundamental point. This is just because their conclusions have been reached on the basis of their own narrow experience, but they have the faulty impression that what is true for them is true for everyone. Everyone seems very convinced that they are correct and that their conclusion has sweeping application, but they're just unaware of the existence of someone else's experience. ▲ Collapse
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I don t like this kind of habit because one has to read all the comments before providing an answer to check that the answer has not been already given in the comments. So you have to scroll to the bottom of the page each time. But I don t care anymore as I have stopped answering KudoZ a long time ago...And the number of questions is really limited nowadays...
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Michele Fauble wrote:
The issue I have is that the answer does not get added to the glossary. If I, or someone else, in the future do a search for a term that you have provided in the discussion box, will we be able to find it?
I don’t even know how you search the glossary tbh (and I certainly wouldn’t assume it contains the right answers). I just Google stuff.
I also think it is important that answers are backed up by references.
Should the onus not be on the asker to put in that time? I would never blindly trust an answer on KudoZ. I’d always check it out anyway. It’s just a pointer for my own research.
Many answers with references that I see are wild guesses supported by irrelevant documents containing the supposed target term.
It doesn’t take long to work out who is reliable and who isn’t.
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