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Oct 18, 2020 15:42
3 yrs ago
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French term

sommier

French to English Art/Literary History description of 17th century Versaillies
I cannot find this term anywhere. The King's retinue included:

"deux sommiers, qui portent les coffres et ornements de la Chapelle, les tapis et coussins destinés au roi et à sa famille ;un lavandier ou blanchisseur, garant de l’éclat des vêtements et ornements liturgiques ; mais aussi des précepteurs chargés de seconder le sous-maître auprès des pages, qui ont également un maître de luth
Proposed translations (English)
3 "sommier" [accoutrements bearer]
4 porter
4 -1 draught horse
3 -1 solid base
References
Sommiers de chapelle

Discussion

Shelley Upton Oct 21, 2020:
I have deleted my incorrect answer.
Emmanuella Oct 19, 2020:
@ ph-b They are Officers
Suzie Withers Oct 19, 2020:
@Mpoma Indeed! Saw your post after I refreshed the page. Not sure if it's detailed enough, but it seems to have the right sense
Mpoma Oct 19, 2020:
@Suzie I posted my answer before seeing your comment ... great minds think alike, etc.
Suzie Withers Oct 19, 2020:
Could you just call them "bearers"? There are also "altar servers" who seem to have a similar role, but these don't have the travelling aspect that I think sommier has.
Althea Draper Oct 18, 2020:
@Emmanuella I think a pack animal handler would have been too lowly to have a place in the King's retinue. I believe that the term in this source text, relates to the people who were responsible for assisting the chapel clerks in transporting the chapel ornaments, cushions for the King to kneel on etc. wherever the king was to hear mass. They were called 'Sommiers de Chapelle'.
Emmanuella Oct 18, 2020:
@ Althea http://afleurdane.org/blog-lydie/une-petite-trouvaille-lexic...
Althea Draper Oct 18, 2020:
From Dictionnaire de L'Académie française, 1st Edition (1694) under Sommier, "On appelle chez le Roy, Sommier de Chapelle, Un certain Officier qui a le soin de faire porter à l'Eglise, à la Chapelle, le drap de pied, les carreaux, &c. du Roy, de la Reyne, &c."

https://portail.atilf.fr/cgi-bin/dico1look.pl?strippedhw=som...
Carol Gullidge Oct 18, 2020:
The human equivalent of fraught horse... Would be a bearer
Emmanuella Oct 18, 2020:
Deux personnes portent tout ce qui est indiqué: les coffres, les ornements, les tapis et coussins. Comment font-ils ?
Voici la solution cf. http://afleurdane.org/blog-lydie/une-petite-trouvaille-lexic...
Emmanuella Oct 18, 2020:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bête_de_somme
Althea Draper Oct 18, 2020:
Comes from the term 'une bête de somme' - a beast of burden, but this is the King's retinue so I would assume it refers to a person rather than a pack horse or sumpter horse.

Proposed translations

1 day 23 hrs
Selected

"sommier" [accoutrements bearer]

I did a trawl though archives too but can't find any equivalent in English for this and see it retained in French everywhere. So I'd retain it with an explanation of role in square brackets. (Royal Chapel later in sentence). Apparently they were not just reponsible for carrying the accoutrements but also for laundering them and repairing them when required.

I did a big translation on Versailles earlier this year and this term didn't crop up at all (nor do I see it on the Vesailles webiste) but the King's Royal Household had numerous servants, all with quite ostentatious titles. See here:

http://thisisversaillesmadame.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-kings...
Note there is also a "portefaix" which would translate more readily as a "porter"

It is not such a lowly position it seems, judging by the salary on offer and the fact the role was passed from father to son. But then any role where touching a royal item was involved was considered to be important.

I also had a look through various English Royal Household records to see if there is a specific term that might be used
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Households_of_the_United...

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Note added at 1 day 23 hrs (2020-10-20 15:25:24 GMT)
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or "Royal Officer of Chapel Accoutrements" though more long winded. But then many of these positions have very long titles!!

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Note added at 4 days (2020-10-23 12:28:01 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped.
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks to all the thoughtful contributions elsewhere too"
-1
33 mins

draught horse

Le Moyen-âge. Pour le voyage, on emploie le roussin, près de terre et résistant ; enfin, à l’extrémité inférieure de la hiérarchie équine, on trouve le sommier, destiné aux plus humbles besognes : bât, trait, culture, etc. — (E. Saurel, Le cheval, équitation et sports hippiques, 408 p., page 40, 1966, Larousse)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/sommier#Nom_commun

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheval_de_trait
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_horse
Peer comment(s):
neutral Mélanie Wisbey (X) : Bête de somme yes, however this is a person, I haven't found any references describing a person in this way.
10 mins
disagree Bokani Hart : Draft animals pull loads, but do not carry them and the sommiers in this case 'portent les coffres...'
13 mins
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : Not horses here
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

porter

A porter carries luggage and other loads
Peer comment(s):
neutral SafeTex : with this type of question, you pretty much need a reference or is this just a guess?
1 hr
Brobeck, J. (1995). Musical Patronage in the Royal Chapel of France under Francis I (r. 1515-1547). Journal of the American Musicological Society, 48(2), 187-239. doi:10.2307/3128814 ..for the porter who bears the books and ornaments of the said chapel..
neutral writeaway : agree with SafeTex. At least one valid ref is needed to make this credible
6 hrs
Lally, Edward Joseph, "The Social Spirit of the Age of Louis XIV: 1650 - 1714" (1941). Master's Theses. Paper 474. http://ecommons.luc.edu/luc_theses/474 ..a simple Councillor, in 1675, kept a secretary, a master of the House, two menservants, a porter..
neutral Gordon Matthews : or "bearer".
15 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : Doubt very much this word fits this context though it does seem to be the role//Gordon's "bearer" slightly better .
16 hrs
neutral ph-b (X) : would agree with Gordon Matthews's "bearer"
1 day 11 hrs
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-1
15 hrs

solid base

The definition is a solid base, though the following phrase tells that it bears (supports, wears, brings or carries). This might question whether it's a person or an object. Since the description is of a king with an entourage (accompanying group) I believe it's an object.

"Il y a aussi des percepteurs chargés de seconder le sous-maître auprès des pages, qui ont également un maître de luth."

"There are also two collectors responsible for assisting the deputy master concerning events with a musical string instrument master."

A lute (luth) is an ancient pear-shaped musical string instrument.

Liturgical is of a prescribed form of public worship.


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Note added at 15 hrs (2020-10-19 07:24:10 GMT)
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Liturgique est d'une réligion publique.

Un lute est un ancien instrument de musique à cord, à la forme d'une poire.

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Note added at 18 hrs (2020-10-19 10:11:26 GMT)
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https://fr.thefreedictionary.com/sommier

'sommier' is a bed base, support

'sommier' is a 'wind chest'
https://www.linguee.com/english-french/search?query=sommier

A 'lute' (luth) is a stringed musical instrument
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/lute



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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs (2020-10-20 11:50:08 GMT)
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"Un sommier est un châssis de bois ou de métal dont l'intérieur est diversement garni et sur lequel repose le matélas."

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/sommier/73416...

It's a wooden or metal frame of which the interior is decorated or garnished, and on which a mattress can rest.
Example sentence:

"Il y a deux sommiers, qui portent les coffres et ornaments de la Chapelle, les tapis et coussins destinés au roi et à sa famille, un lavendier ou blanchisseur, garant de l'éclat des vêtements et ornaments liturgiques, mais aussi des percepteurs charg

There are two solid bases bearing chests or containers and chapel ornaments, rugs or coverings, cushions for the king and his family, lavender or washing facilities, ensurer of brightly decorative clothing and liturgical ornaments"

Note from asker:
Contextbis everything when translating and all this input misses the mark. See others' comments.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Emmanuella : https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/lavandier/464... Solid base/ it = neutral/object and not a person
1 hr
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : It's a person, not a musical instrument!! NOR a "solid base". You can't pick the first meaning from a dictionary. You have to look at the actual context. Read the reference
2 hrs
neutral Shelley Upton : The OED also lists 'A load-bearing beam in a building' as an obsolete meaning for the derivative term 'summer' so I can see where this is coming from. Ain't language wonderful!
2 days 4 hrs
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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Sommiers de chapelle

"D’après le dictionnaire de l’Académie Française de 1694, on appelle chez le Roy, Sommier de Chapelle, un certain Officier qui a le soin de faire porter à l’Eglise, à la Chapelle, le drap de pied et les carreaux, du Roy et de la Reyne. Les carreaux étaient les grandes étoffes sur lesquels le Roi et la Reine s’agenouillaient. Au temps de Rolin, le roi était Louis XIV que nous pouvons admiré sur le tableau ci-dessous priant sur son carreau.
Dans Le grand aumônier de France et le diocèse de la Chapelle royale sous Louis XIV, Alexandre Maral nous décrit que la Chapelle-Oratoire comprenait deux officiers laïcs, les sommiers : chargés d’assister les clercs de Chapelle pour transporter les coffres de la Chapelle-Oratoire partout où le roi devait entendre la messe, ils devaient éventuellement dresser un autel portatif dans le choeur de l’église où le roi se rendait, si le chapitre local avait le privilège de ne laisser officier au maître-autel que des chanoines.
Reference:

http://enquetedenotrehistoire.com/n-comme-noblet-rolin-sommier-de-la-chapelle-et-oratoire-du-roy/

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Emmanuella
42 mins
agree Bokani Hart
2 hrs
agree Yvonne Gallagher
15 hrs
agree Suzie Withers : Great research! We learn something new every day :)
18 hrs
agree ph-b (X)
18 hrs
agree Wolf Draeger
18 hrs
agree Cyril Tollari
1 day 3 hrs
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