Sep 14, 2021 14:54
2 yrs ago
43 viewers *
French term

par éblouissements successifs

French to English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters From An Art History Book
Contexte :

L’incendie se localisait aisément dans le jardin intérieur du musée du Jeu de Paume, où crépitait dans les flammes une pyramide hérissée de cadres et de châssis. On pouvait y apercevoir, par éblouissements successifs, des images qui disparaissaient ensuite dans le feu.

Merci Beaucoup,

Barbara

Discussion

Emmanuella Sep 15, 2021:
Je paraphrase : on pouvait Y voir ( dans les flammes lorsqu'elles éblouissaient) , des images...
J'avais uniquement suggéré s'il était possible de rendre l'idée avec la préposition 'through' , ce qui est plausible, mais Daryo a vu juste.
Mpoma Sep 15, 2021:
@SafeTex Here's an example from TLFi: "La falaise de maisons, à droite, se décrochait par élans successifs, du même mouvement que l'escalier (ROMAINS, Hommes bonne vol., 1932, p.184)". Very similar usage to the ST. As TLFi describes this use: "[Le subst. désigne un fragment, un élément discret]".

Or just think of the expression par moments: this doesn't mean "by moments", it means "at moments" (more colloquially "occasionally").

Par has got a hidden life in this respect, particularly in a literary context. Daryo's suggestion also uses it non-instrumentally.
SafeTex Sep 14, 2021:
@ Mpoma and all I think that you may be right as to how you see the scene but I'm really not sure about how you translate "par"

You say it means "as" here but I would have thought "comme" would = "as". Maybe a French native speaker can confirm things one way or another.
Mpoma Sep 14, 2021:
@Emmanuella Your initial discussion point flatly contradicted the possibility suggested by Chris. That was impolite (and also incorrect, since there is another way of reading this).

Conversely I only suggested (and continue to) that you "may not have understood".

Touchy much?
Emmanuella Sep 14, 2021:
@ Mpoma - Please check the various meanings of ' par' as well as the use of the indefinite article. Moreover, try to be polite !
Mpoma Sep 14, 2021:
"par" I think Emmanuella may not have understood that in French this "par" can actually mean "as", rather than "by", i.e. "as/in successive bursts/flares/whatever", rather than "[were lit up] *by* bursts/flares...".

Lending weight to this interpretation (because at first it seems either is possible) is the absence of the partitive "des": if "par" meant "by" we should expect the writer to have written "par des éblouissements successifs". French is less flexible than English with these grammatical niceties of course.

Think about it for a nanosecond and you'll see I'm right. So I'm with Chris on this one.

Further corroboration perhaps: if these are successive bursts of light illuminating the paintings they must be instantaneous: a flash and then gone. But we are are told that the images then disappear in the fire: what's actually lighting them up at this point? NB in this connection it would be useful to know if this is a night-time scene or not. I tend to picture it that way: flames, images etc. would be less likely to be éblouissantes during the day.

If it is the images which are the éblouissements this makes for a more plausible literary image.
Marge Hogarty Sep 14, 2021:
I think the image that Chris wants to convey is particularly powerful, although, agreed, it does refer to the flame, as Emmanuella points out.
Emmanuella Sep 14, 2021:
Through successive glares of fire
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Sep 14, 2021:
Oui, je suis d'accord.
Emmanuella Sep 14, 2021:
Éblouissement se réfère à la lumière de la flamme
Barbara Cochran, MFA (asker) Sep 14, 2021:
Yes, I think you and SafeTex have the right idea (which was mine, too). Thanks for your confirmation, and for offering an extended explanation of what you see as the entire scenario.
chris collister Sep 14, 2021:
The idea is, I think, that at random intervals, a particularly flammable picture might flare up and then illuminate itself and/or other pictures before being consumed and then disappearing.

Proposed translations

+6
8 hrs
Selected

with each burst of flames


On pouvait y apercevoir, par éblouissements successifs, des images qui disparaissaient ensuite dans le feu.

In it (this pyramid) you could glimpse, with each burst of flames, paintings that were disappearing/vanishing in the fire

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Note added at 8 hrs (2021-09-14 23:40:59 GMT)
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"par éblouissements successifs" is simply about the varying intensity of the illumination caused by flames, it says nothing about what exactly (/ which part of this pyramid) was burning - paintings, frames or whatever else was in it.
Peer comment(s):

agree Mpoma : Yes, that's another (convincing) interpretation of the par phrase, the third.
7 hrs
Thanks!
agree Emmanuella
8 hrs
Merci!
agree AllegroTrans : Yes, "par" well dealt with
12 hrs
Thanks!
agree chris collister
14 hrs
Thanks!
agree Michele Fauble
17 hrs
Thanks!
agree Eliza Hall
1 day 18 hrs
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+3
18 mins

by succesive flare-ups

something like this perhaps?

My reference says

"Flare-up: Any sudden acceleration of fire spread or intensification of a fire. Unlike a blow-up, a flare-up lasts a relatively short time and does not radically change control plans."
Peer comment(s):

agree AllegroTrans
20 mins
Thanks AllegroTrans
agree Libby Cohen : Yes, "flare-ups" is a more technically correct rendering of the term than "flashes."
52 mins
Thanks Libby
agree Bashiqa : Looks good to me.
2 hrs
Thanks Bashiqa
disagree Mpoma : Sorry, it would have to be "*des* éblouissements" - see my discussion entry - I'm pretty convinced that it's the images which are the éblouissements (as suggested by Chris).
2 hrs
I've seen your idea and find it interesting.
agree Michele Fauble : I think this also accommodates the interpretation suggested by Chris in the discussion.
3 hrs
That would be good as it would cover all bases
neutral Andrew Bramhall : Unfortunately ambiguous;// I got drunk in the pub one night and had successive flare-ups with the bar staff;
5 hrs
neutral ph-b (X) : Yes to "flare-ups", but what happened to éblouissements? What about "dazzling flare-ups"?/Flare-ups are not necessarily dazzling.
2 days 23 hrs
Obviously, in my answer, "éblouissements" = "flare up". Have you ever seen a flare up that was not dazzling???
Something went wrong...
-2
39 mins

in a succession of bursts of dazzling colour

I believe these are oil paintings being destroyed ... and the text suggests, slightly implausibly, that we see an image of the painting en surbrillance before it is consumed by the flames.

I think therefore that éblouir in this particular context conveys an idea of colour being involved.

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Note added at 1 hr (2021-09-14 16:21:10 GMT)
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To those who don't really understand my point: the word "par" is critical here.

In my reading this is not an instrumental "par", but an explanatory "par", i.e. not "we saw images *lit up by* successive dazzlings" but "we saw images *in a succession* of dazzlings".
Peer comment(s):

disagree Emmanuella : La lumière de la flamme éblouit. I did understand. No dazzling colour . The dazzling of the flame instead.
23 mins
Er, yes. You don't seem to understand my point. "On pouvait y apercevoir, par éblouissements successifs, *des images*": we are specifically told the images are what we are seeing. Images, not flames.
disagree Andrew Bramhall : Might work with garden flower bed descriptions, but not here;
1 hr
er, because ... ? a reasoned "disagree" would be preferable.
neutral Daryo : it's a very plausible addition, but even for this kind of texts it might be too much poetic licence. // here "éblouissement" is simply a short burst of strong ("blinding") light from flames.
7 hrs
"neutral" is right. "Poetic licence": you're spot on, particularly regarding my use of "colour". But I stick with my view that par is making an identification between the images and the éblouissements.
neutral ph-b (X) : "dazzling" is certainly the nearest thing to éblouissements and should be part of the translation, but not sure about "colour". "Dazzling flare-ups"?
2 days 23 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : OK for 'dazzling' and 'succession of bursts' but 'colour' is dubitable
2 days 23 hrs
Something went wrong...
-3
2 hrs

by successive glimmers

The fire was east to locate in the inner garden of the Jeu de Paume museum, where a pyramid bristling with frames and stretchers was crackling in the flames. One could see images illuminated in the darkness by successive glimmers, glimpses which were then consumed in the fire.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Mpoma : éblouissement can NEVER be "glimmer". Incidentally, we don't know whether this is in fact a night-time scene.
12 mins
disagree AllegroTrans : these are much more like sudden flashes as each painting bursts into flames: 'glimmer' just doesn't do it
41 mins
disagree SafeTex : You said that my suggestion is ambigous whereas your's is just plain (semantically) wrong. "Glimmer" just doesn't cut it for "éblouissements".
4 hrs
neutral Daryo : for comparison, someone screaming like a demented street preacher is hardly "whispering"?
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
27 mins

by successive flashes of fire

https://sante.journaldesfemmes.fr › 2...
· Translate this page
4 May 2020 — un éclair devant les yeux,; un éblouissement sans source de lumière, ... ou des points lumineux, qui persistent après fermeture des yeux.
‎Symptômes · ‎Migraine

Sensation d'eblouissement permanent - Journal des Femmes
https://sante-medecine.journaldesfemmes.fr › ...
· Translate this page
5 Nov 2011 — A voir également: Sensation d'eblouissement permanent; éblouissement persistant - Meilleures réponses; Sensation d'éblouissement dans les yeux ...



Cicely: Or, the Rose of Raby. An Historic Novel, in Four ...
https://books.google.co.uk › books
Agnes Musgrave · 1795 · ‎Historical fiction
I arose , and looking out of the door bea . held from the black cloud , which now overspread the whole sky , successive flashes of fire emitted , the ...

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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-09-14 20:35:00 GMT)
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Succesive fiery flashes
Peer comment(s):

agree Daryo : successive fiery flashes
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
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