Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
конский щавель
English translation:
horse sorrel, horse dock
Added to glossary by
Tim Sergay
Jun 4, 2010 01:01
13 yrs ago
Russian term
конский щавель
Russian to English
Science
Botany
From 2000 novel by A.P. Chudakov Lozhitsia mgla na starye stupeni; the setting is Northern Kazakhstan, tectonic lake; context: Ещё ближе была Каменуха, по излогим склонам к ней вели перелески из кривульника, на полянах зверобой, душица, болиголов, щитовник, сныть, конский щавель, целые поляны медвянки, от её аромата кружилась голова; над ней гудели, как аэропланы, пухлые шмели-медовики. For щавель alone, which also appears in this local context, I have found sorrel (dock) and am satisfied with these, but I have not found конский щавель anywhere. Thank you for any help at all!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +2 | horse sorrel |
Rachel Douglas
|
| 4 | Asiatic Dock |
Marina Aleyeva
|
Proposed translations
+2
15 mins
Rachel Douglas
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Excellent English from Russian originals
Native in: English (Variants: British, Australian, US)
Works in: Russian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
horse sorrel
Paul Macura's Russian-English Botanical Dictionary gives "horse sorrel" or "monk's rhubarb" for this.
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Note added at 38 mins (2010-06-04 01:39:29 GMT)
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Other sources, however, say that "monk's rhubarb" is used for Rumex patienta, and that the latter is also know as "patience dock", "garden patience", "herb patience." Those don't sound like part of a wild landscape, and "horse sorrel" is certainly used for wild Rumex confertus. "Asiatic dock" and "Russian dock" are also used (it's an invasive, in North America), but for an "internal" landscape description, i.e., if your narration is by somebody who lives in those parts, and also for fitting into a long list, I think "horse sorrel" would sound the most natural.
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Note added at 38 mins (2010-06-04 01:39:29 GMT)
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Other sources, however, say that "monk's rhubarb" is used for Rumex patienta, and that the latter is also know as "patience dock", "garden patience", "herb patience." Those don't sound like part of a wild landscape, and "horse sorrel" is certainly used for wild Rumex confertus. "Asiatic dock" and "Russian dock" are also used (it's an invasive, in North America), but for an "internal" landscape description, i.e., if your narration is by somebody who lives in those parts, and also for fitting into a long list, I think "horse sorrel" would sound the most natural.
Note from asker:
| Thank you, Rachel! I will wait the recommended 24 hours, but I was hoping that "horse sorrel" would turn out to be attested, and I'm confident I'll end up picking this answer and awarding you the associated "kudos." I was unaware of the Macura title (not a specialist): Does this dictionary shed any light on медвянка or кривульник? |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks and points to Rachel, but you both have been extremely generous to me: I am grateful to you both."
12 mins
Marina Aleyeva
Israel
Israel
Native in Russian
Works in field
Israel
Medicine & Clinical Studies - MSc, MA
Native in: Russian 
, Ukrainian
Works in: English to Russian, English to Ukrainian, Russian to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Asiatic Dock
Щаве́ль ко́нский (лат. Rúmex confértus) — многолетнее травянистое растение из семейства Гречишные (Polygonaceae).
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumex_confertus
Name Rumex confertus Willd.
Common names Asiatic Dock
http://data.gbif.org/species/13762157
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Note added at 11 hrs (2010-06-04 12:32:00 GMT)
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Tim, it seems that you have already made up your mind, but I would still like to point out that bilingual dictionaries are of lower importance compared to flora checklists when it comes to the common names of plants. "horse sorrel" does not seem to be an accepted name and looks more like a literal translation. GBIF is an international organisation that puts together various data publishers (see http://data.gbif.org/datasets/ ), so I would rather trust the GBIF checklist than a dictionary.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2010-06-04 12:38:03 GMT)
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Please also note that конский щавель is a widely known common name rather than preferential or local, which means that you would need an accepted name to translate it. However, on second thought, I think that just sorrel or dock may be sufficient in this case even though you already have just щавель earlier in this text.
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumex_confertus
Name Rumex confertus Willd.
Common names Asiatic Dock
http://data.gbif.org/species/13762157
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Note added at 11 hrs (2010-06-04 12:32:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Tim, it seems that you have already made up your mind, but I would still like to point out that bilingual dictionaries are of lower importance compared to flora checklists when it comes to the common names of plants. "horse sorrel" does not seem to be an accepted name and looks more like a literal translation. GBIF is an international organisation that puts together various data publishers (see http://data.gbif.org/datasets/ ), so I would rather trust the GBIF checklist than a dictionary.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2010-06-04 12:38:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Please also note that конский щавель is a widely known common name rather than preferential or local, which means that you would need an accepted name to translate it. However, on second thought, I think that just sorrel or dock may be sufficient in this case even though you already have just щавель earlier in this text.
Note from asker:
| Dear Marina, Thank you very much for pointing out the GBIF site, which is totally new to me. I have done some more googling around for "horse sorrel" and find plenty of confirmation of its use as a common name for Rumex confertus, but also Rumex acetosella and Rumex hydrolapathum (the latter in www.archive.org/stream/.../dictionaryofengl00mill_djvu.txt). I do indeed have to distinguish щавель from конский щавель. I found also "horse dock." If there are technical criteria for inclusion of a vernacular term in the category "accepted name," could you possibly refer me to a source for those criteria? Address: [email protected]. Thank you again! |
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