This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
выводить мощности в реконструкцию
ориентация здания по сторонам света

Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

предметное действие

English translation:

(functional) object-related action

Added to glossary by Susan Welsh
May 26, 2015 16:42
9 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Russian term

предметное действие

Russian to English Social Sciences Psychology education
Vygotskyian psychology (Davydov)

Общение должно осуществляться не столько в словесно-дискурсивном плане, сколько в форме обмена **предметными действиями,** раскрывающими и моделирующими изучаемые понятийные отношения....

В процессе освоения ребенком нового культурного опыта можно выделить три фазы, характеризующиеся сменой мотивов **предметного действия**: мотив общения с привлекательным взрослым сменяется мотивом совместного предметного действия и сдвигается на сам предмет действия....

Самостоятельное **предметное действие** ребенка...

Через несколько месяцев **предметные действия** ребёнка стереотипизируются, становятся непосредственными и ситуативными....

В свободной ситуации хорошо говорящие дети напевали песенки, обращались к сверстникам, комментировали свои **предметные действия.**...

К концу дошкольного возраста речь становится уже не только средством общения, но и средством саморегуляции, в связи с чем **предметные действия,** независимо от материала, начинают опосредоваться речью.

Thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 object-related act
3 figural activity
2 associated action
References
предметное действие
Change log

May 28, 2015 00:04: Susan Welsh changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/625898">Susan Welsh's</a> old entry - "предметное действие"" to ""(functional) object-related act""

Discussion

The Misha May 27, 2015:
And to think I had a very real chance at becoming one of those myself! Goodness gracious!
Susan Welsh (asker) May 27, 2015:
@Misha Misha, you just don't understand academics. They don't SPEAK ENGLISH, they speak jargon. I don't know which are worse, American, German, British, Russian, or Arab academics. You cannot translate jargon into English (or whatever language); you have to translate it into the JARGON used by the target language. But when Russian uses предмет to mean "subject" OR "object," and обучение can mean either teaching or learning or education, what's a girl to do? (The guy from Odessa has it right, though...!)
The Misha May 26, 2015:
The guy may well be an expert in whatever it is he is an expert in, but it still doesn't mean his English is any good ("With a name like Schmuckers..."). All of this reminds me of an old Jewish joke about a certain Fima, a tailor to whom a big cheese from Moscow brought "ein Stück" of fabric that all other tailors said was way to small for a pair or pants. Fima made him the pants all right, and when delivering them he said,

"You think you are an expert? Well, maybe you are an expert in Moscow, but here in Odessa you are just a putz. I vot vam eshchyo i kepochka!
Elena Ow-Wing May 26, 2015:
2Susan Ha-ha! I certainly didn't see that one. Unfortunately, I have no time now to dig into it. Maybe later tonight.
Susan Welsh (asker) May 26, 2015:
@Elena Well, I just found another one from a presumed expert, the same as yours: "object-related action." https://www.marxists.org/archive/davydov/generalization/gene... -- Чёрт знает!
Elena Ow-Wing May 26, 2015:
The word "concrete" does make sense. "Concrete" vs "abstract": something you can do vs think/ imagine, etc. "Activity" is too general, "action" might be better. Anyway, thanks for sharing the results of your search.
Susan Welsh (asker) May 26, 2015:
concrete activity This translation is given in V.V. Davydov, "The Concept of Theoretical Generalization and Problems of Educational Psychology," Studies in Soviet Thought 1988. It's edited by Alex Kozulin, who is a Vygotsky expert in the US, so it should be about as reliable as one can get. I'll use this unless someone comes up with something better. (Actually, since it's действие, it really can't be "activity." So much for "experts.")

Proposed translations

+3
18 mins
Selected

object-related act

As far as I understand, "предметное" here means "an object/ thing/ tool" and "предметное действие" - an act of handling this object/ thing/ tool.

As here under 59 and further:
http://www.voppsy.ru/issues/1996/965/965057.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2015-05-26 17:12:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is just my translation based on my understanding of the Russian term. The reference is in Russian, too. It is quite possible there is a standard English translation of this term.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2015-05-26 21:51:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As to what is better - act or action - here, native speakers of English with psychological education/ background might advise.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day13 hrs (2015-05-28 06:24:58 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Susan! Good luck with this challenging project.
Peer comment(s):
agree Leniana Koroleva
1 hr
Спасибо!
neutral The Misha : What if there are no objects involved? They seem to study "conceptual relations". As to the word act, in my mind it associates with two fairly specific contexts, neither of which is appropriate for preschool psychology.
3 hrs
Как известно педагогам и психологам, работающим с детьми дошкольного возраста, у дошкольников преобладает предметное мышление. И только постепенно, через манипуляцию предметами, т.е. через предметные действия, у них формируется понятийное мышление.
agree Katerina O. : I'd say it's an action though
10 hrs
Thanks! Yes, "action" seems more appropriate here.
agree cyhul
10 hrs
Thank you!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Elena, and also to Katerina. I don't know of a good way to add the qualification that Katerina's reference supplied. The first time it is used in the text, I wrote "functional, object-related act," but after that left out "functional." I'm not sure anyone would understand what it meant anyway. For that matter, no native Russian speaker would understand the nuanced meaning of "предметное действие" anyway, unless he or she was a professional psychologist."
10 mins

figural activity



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2015-05-26 17:24:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Или может substantive action. См. http://en.psibook.com/articles/detsko-roditelskie-otnosheniy...
Note from asker:
Documentation would be helpful. I have no idea what this means, and don't find it online in such contexts.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

associated action

Going strictly by the logic of it. You may well be on another wild goose chase here, Susan. I am sure you've had plenty of opportunity to see it for yourself that English-speaking scholars in general and psychologists in particular, operate with a totally different vocabulary and sometimes don't even look at the problem the same way - that is, assuming there really is a problem. Apparently, there is a reason nothing googles right.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2015-05-26 22:52:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oy vey! I have gazed long into an abyss, and the abyss also gazed into me:)
Note from asker:
On the subject of "acts," consult the gravedigger scene in Hamlet: "GRAVEDIGGER: ...For here lies the point: if I drown myself wittingly, it argues an act, and an act hath three branches—it is, to act, to do, to perform; argal, she drowned herself wittingly. OTHER: Nay, but hear you, goodman delver – GRAVEDIGGER: Give me leave. Here lies the water—good. Here stands the man—good. If the man go to this water to drown himself, it is will he nill he, he goes—mark you that. But if the water comes to him, he drowns not himself. Argal, he that is not guilty of his own death shortens not his own life.
That was to help you understand academic psychologists.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

11 hrs
Reference:

предметное действие

Не всякое действие ребенка с предметом — предметное действие. Предметным действием называется только такое действие, когда предмет используется в соответствии с его функциональным назначением. Так, например, если ребенок берет в руки ложку и стучит ей по столу, это не предметное действие, а манипуляция с предметом, так как функция ложки — другая; предметным, действие будет тогда, когда ребенок использует ложку для еды. http://pedlib.ru/Books/5/0169/5_0169-21.shtml

Предметные действия
схема действия) — в концепции Ж. Пиаже это любое действие, совершаемое ребенком: слежение глазами за объектами, поворот головы, ощупывание, схватывание и т. п. Предметное действие — «это то наиболее общее, что сохраняется в действии при его многократном повторении в разных обстоятельствах» (Л. Ф. Обухова). На основе действий формируются новые умственные структуры. http://vocabulary.ru/dictionary/793/word/predmetnye-deistvij...

That's what a предметное действие is, в детской психологии. And it's not a concrete action

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day10 hrs (2015-05-28 03:23:15 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

You're absolutely right. No need to go deeper than Elena's version.
Note from asker:
Thanks, that's useful. I don't think there's a way English-speaking psychologists express all that, however (at least I don't find one). Even "intentional, object-related action" does not do it, since the kid banging his spoon on the table is doing it "intentionally," but it does not "form new mental structures." And "functional, object-related action" sounds weird to me -- functional carrying the connotation of "utilitarian," like plumbing or an electrical outlet.
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search