| Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3] > | Agencies aiming to win new accounts: Please pay your translation tests! Auteur du fil: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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| Thanks for pointing it out | May 12, 2016 |
Philippe Etienne wrote: Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
...In the past, I think I have been too nice to agencies taking tests for free, and all I got was literally nothing: no feedback, no job, a few thank yous for completing the test but never heard from them again. And when I inquire them what happened to the submitted tests, their answers were "our client hasn't given us the go-ahead yet", or "they need some more time to consider". And silence again. But I suppose you don't do free tests for your existing customers either.
Yes, you're correct. I don't do free tests for my existing customer either. They should know what I am capable of and not capable of if they take a look at my profile stating all the fields I specialize and work in.
| | | | | Agencies are hurting themselves | May 12, 2016 |
Helena Chavarria wrote:
I've got at least six test pieces waiting for me in my inbox.
Whenever I'm asked to do an unpaid test I politely let the person know that I'll do it when I have time, and I really think I'll do it, but that moment just never seems to arrive!
I don't think they are able to recruit the best translators that way.
| | | | Cristiana Coblis 
Roumanie
Local time: 12:05
Membre (2004)
anglais vers roumain
+ ...
| Speculative work is all too common | May 12, 2016 |
It has to be said, spec work is a common phenomenon in creative professions. Some of my agency clients sometimes ask for tests for new accounts. This is usually for large or high/profile new accounts or accounts with very particular requirements. Fortunately, most do offer to pay for these tests. Obviously, they are aware that good established translators are rather busy and would not be able to easily fit spec work into their schedule. In many cases, these tests are longer than usual and have s... See more It has to be said, spec work is a common phenomenon in creative professions. Some of my agency clients sometimes ask for tests for new accounts. This is usually for large or high/profile new accounts or accounts with very particular requirements. Fortunately, most do offer to pay for these tests. Obviously, they are aware that good established translators are rather busy and would not be able to easily fit spec work into their schedule. In many cases, these tests are longer than usual and have some special instructions that one has to follow. In such cases, it is often wise to ask for payment anyway, even for new agencies.
Recently, I had a request from an agency that I have been working with for several years, but only on a few small projects, because my rate is too high. In this case, they were not prepared to pay for the test and asked if I would be able to do it for free and also offer them a discount on my usual rate for this project. I declined to do the test for free, but we agreed on a small discount if the client preferred my work, which turned out to be the case. Even so, they did not assign the entire project to me, only a more visible part of it, but they were fair and paid the full rate, even if we had agreed on a discount. No complaints here, but it turned out it was a good idea to ask them to pay something for the test.
I think it is fair to get paid for tests (for existing or new agencies), particularly when they are longer than one page or have special instructions, glossaries or style guides attached to them. After all, it is difficult to know the full reality of an account until one actually starts working on it. So, even if the translator is chosen, he/she might find that the new account is not a good match for various reasons. ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
États-Unis
Local time: 05:05
Membre (2005)
anglais vers chinois
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| I don't think your topic is related to the OP's. | May 12, 2016 |
LegalTransform wrote:
Isn't it possible, at least in some cases, to determine that a translator is competent without the need for a test? For example, length of time in the industry, examples of previous projects, reviews and recommendations.
To test everyone indiscriminately seems inefficient to me. Especially since the majority of these tests are 1) scored by competing translators who don't what others to get their work from the agency; 2) scored by persons with far less experience than the person being tested; 3) taken from on-line bilingual sources that are easily found with an internet search); 4) can be completed by a paid third party.
I have often thought about setting up a translator testing company so that companies would have independent proof of competence.
[Edited at 2016-05-11 16:18 GMT]
The OP discussed the fact that an agency asked its translators to translate for free a sample that a potential end client had asked the agency to translate. However, in your post you talked about the translation agency using a test sample to evaluate its potential translators' competency. I don't think that is relevant.
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Thayenga
Allemagne
Local time: 11:05
Membre (2009)
anglais vers allemand
+ ...
Helena Chavarria wrote:
Whenever I'm asked to do an unpaid test I politely let the person know that I'll do it when I have time, and I really think I'll do it, but that moment just never seems to arrive!
I know the feeling.
To top this, there's an agency that wants me to do 6 slightly different tests (subtitling), of course, for free. The time they're estimating for the completion of these tests is roughly 90 minutes. The amusing part of it is...I once did those tests a few years back for an agency with a slightly different name, but which uses the very same platform as the new agency does. Not amusing enough? Well, they also use the very same tests. Still not smiling? The formerly done tests and their results are also available to the new agency, having full access to all the platform's features and content.
So no, in the past twelve or thirteen months I never seemed to have had the time to do again - this time for free - what I already did years ago.
[Edited at 2016-05-13 16:49 GMT]
| | | | Merab Dekano
Espagne
Membre (2014)
anglais vers espagnol
+ ...
| They know you, don't they? | May 13, 2016 |
I have not ever received a request from a PM who knows me, and is happy with my work, to do any additional tests.
I do not have a problem, however, to do a short translation test, even for free, if I am about to acquire a new customer. But that test, free or otherwise, is the last test I do for that particular agency. It usually takes less than an hour and in my opinion it's worth it to invest in a prospective customer, even if you only get occasional work from that agency.
| | | | Robert Rietvelt
Local time: 11:05
Membre (2006)
espagnol vers néerlandais
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| Time = money | May 13, 2016 |
You don't go to a bakery and ask them to give you a free loaf of bread, with the promise that if you like it, next time you will pay for your purchase?
Get real! We are working for our money. We invest time, and... (look at the title).
PS) Many good entries in this forum.
| | | | Lyubov Kucher
Espagne
Local time: 11:05
espagnol vers russe
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| Posing "conditions" for free tests | May 14, 2016 |
After responding to a job ad posted here on ProZ a week ago, an Italian agency based in Torino (with note 4.3 in BB) asked me to complete a free test in order to participate in this project for a big oil company. I answered that I was ready to do this free test if the text includes less than 250-300 words and there is no delivery deadline (so that I could do it when I have free time). To my astonishment, I received the following short response: "Don't worry, we do have plenty of linguists that p... See more After responding to a job ad posted here on ProZ a week ago, an Italian agency based in Torino (with note 4.3 in BB) asked me to complete a free test in order to participate in this project for a big oil company. I answered that I was ready to do this free test if the text includes less than 250-300 words and there is no delivery deadline (so that I could do it when I have free time). To my astonishment, I received the following short response: "Don't worry, we do have plenty of linguists that pose no conditions!”. In a subsequent email they wrote “we had over 200 translators getting back to us offering their services”. Why pay translators if they do this for free with no conditions? ▲ Collapse
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| Confirms that the Blueboard works! | May 14, 2016 |
Lyubov Kucher wrote:
After responding to a job ad posted here on ProZ a week ago, an Italian agency based in Torino (with note 4.3 in BB) received the following short response: "Don't worry, we do have plenty of linguists that pose no conditions!”[/quote]
So the Blueboard works! Clearly, anyone below 4.9 is a no-go! Thanks for sharing the story.
| | | | | Well, wish them good luck | May 15, 2016 |
Lyubov Kucher wrote:
After responding to a job ad posted here on ProZ a week ago, an Italian agency based in Torino (with note 4.3 in BB) asked me to complete a free test in order to participate in this project for a big oil company. I answered that I was ready to do this free test if the text includes less than 250-300 words and there is no delivery deadline (so that I could do it when I have free time). To my astonishment, I received the following short response: "Don't worry, we do have plenty of linguists that pose no conditions!”. In a subsequent email they wrote “we had over 200 translators getting back to us offering their services”. Why pay translators if they do this for free with no conditions?
Would you really want to work with an agency that is replying in such a manner (you are busy as well I suppose and not desperate). Besides, I think you were not submissive enough for them and now they are showing off.
| | | | Thayenga
Allemagne
Local time: 11:05
Membre (2009)
anglais vers allemand
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| Good to know | May 15, 2016 |
Lyubov Kucher wrote:
To my astonishment, I received the following short response: "Don't worry, we do have plenty of linguists that pose no conditions!”. In a subsequent email they wrote “we had over 200 translators getting back to us offering their services”. Why pay translators if they do this for free with no conditions?
At least they're honestly admitting what they're seeking: free translations. Perhaps a little imprudent, but they got what they wanted.
| | | | Thayenga
Allemagne
Local time: 11:05
Membre (2009)
anglais vers allemand
+ ...
| Interesting idea | May 15, 2016 |
LegalTransform wrote:
I have often thought about setting up a translator testing company so that companies would have independent proof of competence.
[Edited at 2016-05-11 16:18 GMT]
This sounds like a win-win plan. Are you going to pay "your" translators?
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Christina B.
Suède
Local time: 11:05
français vers allemand
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| They have to be paid like any other project | May 16, 2016 |
I do from time to time such tests for one of my agency clients. Between the agency and me they are always considered (and paid) as normal translation projects. The only difference is that the PM tells me "please be extra-careful with this project, it's a test for a possible new customer".
After all, it's the agency being tested by the end client, not you being tested by the agency! The agency probably has a budget for these tests.
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
(...)
- What kind of rate do they intend to pay you if the test is successful and work starts to pour in from the customer.
Usually your normal rate with them if there is already such a thing. If not, chances are they have a bargain in mind (for them, not you).
Some expression of commitment to send all work your way first.
Oh yes!
An indication that you are their only resource taking the test (after all, they trust you so much, right?)
Firstly, fuck 'resource'; a translator is a human being. Secondly, the problem is it's possible you're the only one to take the test but not the only one who's going to be translating all those things.
Note that the agency's client doesn't necessarily realize the link between the sample submitted by the agency and the work of an individual translator. To the client, the agency translated as a collective body.
Please, agencies out there: Of course we enjoy working for you, and are always willing to help you win new accounts, but, are we not worth the 40 or 50 euros a test would cost? Is 40 or 50 euros not a reasonable investment, in exchange for the big profits you expect from this new account when we help you win it and serve the customer in the months/years ahead?
I can afford to give an agency (which is not a 'client') half an hour of my time every now and then, but what worries me is agencies' reluctance to cover their own costs, whether losses on a particular project (which is when they want a discount simply because the client wasn't pleased even though the client was wrong, or they can't pay you because the client hasn't paid them), or investment in growth, such as samples for new clients.
Next, I'm worried about the mentality of not paying the translator whenever at all avoidable, including first of all inflated discounts for fuzzy matches in CAT grids.
Please, please pay tests, even if only a nominal figure as proof that you care about your vendors!
By definition, 'vendor' is not someone you care for.
Cristiana Coblis wrote:
It has to be said, spec work is a common phenomenon in creative professions. Some of my agency clients sometimes ask for tests for new accounts. This is usually for large or high/profile new accounts or accounts with very particular requirements. Fortunately, most do offer to pay for these tests. Obviously, they are aware that good established translators are rather busy and would not be able to easily fit spec work into their schedule. In many cases, these tests are longer than usual and have some special instructions that one has to follow. In such cases, it is often wise to ask for payment anyway, even for new agencies.
My policy is to do samples — for reasons I'll list in a moment — but decline any tests that either discernibly focus on the translator's ability to follow instructions rather than working like an independent high-profile professional, or contain a detailed but disorganized laundry list of wishes, expectations and comments.
My reasons to agree to give free samples (not tests):
- If they already see what they are about to pass up to save a buck or two, then it's going to be all the harder for them to make the fiscally (ir)responsible decision.
- It's the cheapest form of direct marketing ever. I would need to pay money to an ad agency if I wanted to place a sample of my work with a translation agency or client, normally. And it would cost much more than half an hour of my work.
However, I oppose calling them 'tests' formally. This is a bit of a litmus test, for an agency which is too stuck in its own Mordorian ways will never yield that inch. Nor will someone who is opposed to making any sort of concession in principle; hence, this will filter out agencies that engage in the sort of negotiation that's predicated on you making concessions but them making none. On the other hand, simply agreeing to call their 'test' a mere sample is proof of either corporate flexibility or the ability of the PM/recruiter (whoever is talking to you) to take charge and think independently and critically. And you really, really need your PMs to be that, because rigid e-mail forwarders bring trouble — think of all those moody clients, ill-defined or contradictory requirements, glossaries riddled with errors, broken files and hybernating servers (in urgent server projects). The bad kind of PM will simply continue to use the broken-record communication strategy, blame you for everything and repeat lines from the company's PR manual. A PM who has not been brainwashed will attempt to solve the problem, instead.
And the reason I oppose free tests with custom wish lists is that in my book agency jobs priced at standard agency rates are bulk translation. It's not necessarily worse translation, nor necessarily purchased in huge quantities, but the client is not paying for the packaging and the sort of goodies that come with collectors' editions, nor for any sort of specific service. It should be translation from A to B plus QA, i.e. error fixing and troubleshooting of potential communication issues perhaps, but not adaptation to client feedback based on the client's taste. Detailed instructions don't fit here, as they customize the job. An expectation of any special attention does not fit. This is different when the agency and the client are looking for something premium and paying for it, as opposed to trying to inject premium requirements and standards in standard/bulk service.
I think it is fair to get paid for tests (for existing or new agencies), particularly when they are longer than one page or have special instructions, glossaries or style guides attached to them. After all, it is difficult to know the full reality of an account until one actually starts working on it. So, even if the translator is chosen, he/she might find that the new account is not a good match for various reasons.
The question is not whether we should be paid for it, the question is whether agencies and clients should be getting it free of charge (and why).
When the focus is on you wanting money from someone, then popular perception makes you look rather greedy. But if you reframe and make the question be why they want unpaid labour, that's a whole different kettle of fish for them to fry.
[Edited at 2016-05-16 12:25 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-05-16 12:25 GMT]
| | | | Merab Dekano
Espagne
Membre (2014)
anglais vers espagnol
+ ...
| freelancer vs employee | May 16, 2016 |
Lyubov Kucher wrote:
To my astonishment, I received the following short response: "Don't worry, we do have plenty of linguists that pose no conditions!”. In a subsequent email they wrote “we had over 200 translators getting back to us offering their services”. Why pay translators if they do this for free with no conditions?
One of the main differences between being an employee and a freelancer is that employees are (usually) "tied up" and "not valued", while freelancers are "free" and look for a mutually respectful relationships, to say the very least.
It's great that you did not engage with this agency, isn't it?
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