| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Freelance interpreter stole client Thread poster: kevin316
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Rudolf Vedo CT wrote: kevin316 wrote:
After I hung up, I realized I could have pretended the girl is with my company and made some money from this.
I like the client to believe the interpreter is an employee of the company and not a freelancer. In other words, you wouldn't hesitate to commit (probably tortious) interference in a business relationship that doesn't involve you, and you knowingly misrepresent your independent contractors as actual employees? Both of those are really bad ideas.
| | | | Dan Lucas 
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:55
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| This isn't the way to build trust | Mar 31, 2016 |
kevin316 wrote:
I realized I could have pretended the girl is with my company and made some money from this.
Well, if by "pretended" you mean "lied"...
Regards
Dan
| | | | Diana Coada (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:55
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Rudolf Vedo CT wrote: kevin316 wrote:
After I hung up, I realized I could have pretended the girl is with my company and made some money from this.
I like the client to believe the interpreter is an employee of the company and not a freelancer. In other words, you wouldn't hesitate to commit (probably tortious) interference in a business relationship that doesn't involve you, and you knowingly misrepresent your independent contractors as actual employees? Both of those are really bad ideas.
But this is what you get when any Tom, Dick or Harry can call themselves translators or set up an ''agency'' from their bedroom.
| | | | | Personal ethics | Apr 2, 2016 |
Diana Coada wrote:
But this is what you get when any Tom, Dick or Harry can call themselves translators or set up an ''agency'' from their bedroom.
This is what you get in any profession, with or without regulations and diplomas, when personal ethics are lacking. I have seen plenty of professionals with diplomas in regulated professions misbehaving.
I was solicited recently by a British agency. As its Blue Board was rather empty, I looked around on its website where it said it had several years' experience in improving methods. Then I looked up the company in the Companies House register where it said the company had only been created in September 2015. Then I looked up the website in Whois where it said the website had only been created in September 2015. So a company that has only existed for six months claims to have several years' experience. That’s quite a feat.
I asked them why they claimed something that's obviously false. They said the company owners had several years' experience. So why didn't they just write that instead of lying? I told them I didn't see any basis for cooperation, as one clearly can't trust them. A month later, they solicited me again. I looked at their website again and saw that the lie was still there, so I told them to go away.
It's much easier to destroy trust than build it up, but some people clearly don't understand the damage they do by lying. Or they can’t distinguish between creativity and lies.
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| Leaving your name (and telepohone number?) in Word metadata | Apr 2, 2016 |
Kevin Fulton wrote:
Although I'm too lazy to steal a customer, there have been times when I've been contacted out of the blue by agency customers who, having seen my name in the metadata of a Word file ...
... is in itself an intentional and systematic attempt to steal the customer.
There is no reason whatsoever for a translator to advertise to the end customer who did the translation.
On the few occasions when I outsourced work, I was shocked to find this type of back-door cheating.
Regards,
Sandra
| | | | | Not necessarily | Apr 2, 2016 |
Sandra& Kenneth wrote: Kevin Fulton wrote:
Although I'm too lazy to steal a customer, there have been times when I've been contacted out of the blue by agency customers who, having seen my name in the metadata of a Word file ... ... is in itself an intentional and systematic attempt to steal the customer. There is no reason whatsoever for a translator to advertise to the end customer who did the translation. On the few occasions when I outsourced work, I was shocked to find this type of back-door cheating.
Much to my displeasure, standard installations of MS Word and PDF generating software will leave my name within the files I issue.
I am an ethical guy. I've been serving an American company headquarters through the same US-based agency for almost one decade, so apparently they like my work. I found out that the same company's Brazilian subsidiary's web site is a rather poor translation, so I asked the agency's CEO if he'd have any objection to my contacting their local operation, without mentioning that I work for their WHQ, or that I have ever worked for them in any way. He said he'd rather have me refrain from dong so. Bottom line is that they never heard from me.
Of course, this is a well-paying and high-value-adding agency, my work there is always checked, often post-processed (e.g. PPTs, DTP, whatever), and I respect that.
I know that there is plenty of what I call file-pushing translation agencies around, that will merely relay or forward any files I deliver them WITHOUT OPENING, not even out of curiosity. As these are usually bottom-feeders who add a lot to the final cost, however nothing to the value delivered, I am almost sure I don't work for any of them.
Nevertheless, I think that an agency that doesn't at least bother to wipe off the automatically embedded translator's ID data from the files they deliver actually DESERVES to have end-clients snooping into the files, in an attempt to locate and hire the translator directly.
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 07:55
German to English
| Neither intentional nor systematic | Apr 2, 2016 |
Sandra& Kenneth wrote: Kevin Fulton wrote:
Although I'm too lazy to steal a customer, there have been times when I've been contacted out of the blue by agency customers who, having seen my name in the metadata of a Word file ...
... is in itself an intentional and systematic attempt to steal the customer. There is no reason whatsoever for a translator to advertise to the end customer who did the translation.
Neither intentional nor systematic, and I can't imagine how you came to this conclusion. The agency submitting the files didn't remove the metadata. It's an indication that my translations were not reviewed by an editor, as his/her identifying data should have appeared in the file. These contacts took place long after I had ceased working for the agency in question.
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 19:55
Chinese to English
Sandra& Kenneth wrote:
There is no reason whatsoever for a translator to advertise to the end customer who did the translation.
I can think of a few. In some cases, a customer may request a certain translator via the agency, so the translator might provide her details as a way of demonstrating that the right person worked on this text. In jurisdiction where inalienable copyright accrues to a translator, it would be useful for the customer or any user to have the contact information of the copyright owner. In the case of translations with a creative element, it would surely be sensible to identify specific translators because for that kind of work, translators are not interchangeable.
I understand why you'd write this, and as a matter of course, I never have provided my details to the clients of agencies. But "no reason" is much too absolute. There are a lot of different legal systems, business arrangements and standard practices in the world. And there are many translators out there who are proud to build relationships with the end clients for whom they translate without ever disturbing the agency's business setup. Obviously the unscrupulous are out there, too, but that's what non-competes are for.
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| On the same point | Apr 3, 2016 |
Phil Hand wrote: Sandra& Kenneth wrote:
There is no reason whatsoever for a translator to advertise to the end customer who did the translation.
I can think of a few. In some cases, a customer may request a certain translator via the agency, so the translator might provide her details as a way of demonstrating that the right person worked on this text. In jurisdiction where inalienable copyright accrues to a translator, it would be useful for the customer or any user to have the contact information of the copyright owner. In the case of translations with a creative element, it would surely be sensible to identify specific translators because for that kind of work, translators are not interchangeable.
The "advertising" in this case involves metadata being inserted automatically into the file, where anyone looking at a translation can go into the bowels of the system and see when it was last changed, when it was created, and who created it. A translator may not even be aware of this or give it much thought. We're being paid to do quality timely translations and that is where my focus goes.
Quite some years ago my computer failed and a young family member's computer was passed on to me. He creates animations and his rabbit character was quite popular. For several months anyone wanting to see who had done those translations would have seen that they were done by a rabbit having "Bunny" in its name. (That's how far my own "devious plotting" to advertise my name via metadata went.)
In addition to what Phil wrote, a document may go through several hands, such as a proofreader who edits and makes changes, and sometimes the end client or team members in the end client's company. You get "track changes" in rainbow colours, helping you sort out who did what, and this can be quite important if anything goes awry in the process.
As a certified translator, my name, seal, and unique certification number must be affixed to every translation. I include a separate statement with that information. Not only do agencies hiring me tolerate that information, they want it to be there.
Last week a regular client asked me for a third time to translate a document that I did not have time for, and I asked if they would like me to pass the work on to a colleague whose quality I trust. This was agreed to. The colleague did the translation, I paid the colleague, the agency will pay me, and I passed the translation on to the agency. I know that my colleague's name will be in the metadata. Why should it be a problem? It's her work and she deserves the credit for it. And everything is up front - My client (the agency) knows exactly who did the work, it's like I said it would be - why be sneaky? Trust and trustworthiness are an important cornerstone in client relations.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 13:55
French to English
| depends on the text | Apr 3, 2016 |
Sandra& Kenneth wrote:
There is no reason whatsoever for a translator to advertise to the end customer who did the translation.
Apart from what Phil and Maxi said, I as PM did occasionally give contact details. There was one client who really wanted top-notch quality and who sent us complex technical instructions. It was much easier for the translator to have a quick chat with the author than send lots of questions and try to explain the problem. He always sent a mail summing up what they had agreed to, and the client often then sent an amended file to reflect that, and both copied everything to me so I knew what was going on.
And as a translator I have sometimes been in direct contact with the agency's client, especially for hard-core transcreation where I need to chat with the client to find out exactly what they want and perhaps tentatively submit a couple of ideas to see if I'm on the right wavelength and that they pick up good vibes from my suggestions. That sort of thing definitely needs oral input and cannot just happen smoothly if there's a middle man insisting on filtering our messages, very often the PM thinks they can decide for the client, then the client isn't happy because I've struck a different chord to what they were hoping for.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:55
Serbian to English
+ ...
| what exactly is your added value? | Apr 4, 2016 |
IOW
What makes you think that both client and interpreter owe you fealty?
On which grounds?
Besides the fact that it's your client who bypassed you, while you are blaming the interpreter, the more relevant question is:
what exactly is it that is your property to be possibly "stolen" from you?
After I hung up, I realized I could have pretended the girl is with my company and made some money from this.
You find it so normal to cheat on your clients by misrepresenting your operation that you don't think twice before openly saying it, and then you expect that others must go out of their way to protect your interests!
How much have YOU invested in training the interpreter?
What exactly is the added value you have given to the client?
For all we know, you could have found the interpreter for free from some publicly available professional association's database
Did you personally test the quality of work of this interpreter, to be sure that all the formal qualifications he's waiving are really worth the paper it's printed on? Do you even speak the other language, or do you speak it well enough to do so? If not so, does the client really need you forever?
BTW, If I needed an interpreter, I would certainly put more weight in the recommendation of another interpreter, rather than on the services of a middleman who is only interested in his cut.
P.S. this is the polite version
| | | | Jennifer Miller
United States
Local time: 04:55
English to American Sign Language
| This One Also Falls Under Ethical Business Practices | Sep 12, 2019 |
I've been freelancing for 31 years as an ASL interpreter and also owned a mid- sized agency for nearly 10 years. Not giving your personal contact information for follow-up and only providing the agency details is basic common courtesy. Any interpreter that doesn't default to this is someone who doesn't know how to navigate this industry well. They'll likely burn their fair share if bridges operating in this manner. Just saying. Times may have changed, but this whole situation will still come bac... See more I've been freelancing for 31 years as an ASL interpreter and also owned a mid- sized agency for nearly 10 years. Not giving your personal contact information for follow-up and only providing the agency details is basic common courtesy. Any interpreter that doesn't default to this is someone who doesn't know how to navigate this industry well. They'll likely burn their fair share if bridges operating in this manner. Just saying. Times may have changed, but this whole situation will still come back to haunt this practitioner. Never rehire those who step between (for a reasonable time.) This is what an emotionally intelligent person with some forethought would do. Good manners go a long way this world. Respect consumers, clients, agencies and established groundwork of others who throw an opportunity your way. It's not permission to attempt to obtain personal gain by disregarding the goodwill value of a service business's client list value. Smh. ▲ Collapse
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IrinaN
United States
Local time: 06:55
English to Russian
+ ...
| I can't wrap my head around it | Sep 12, 2019 |
kevin316 wrote:
I sent the original interpreter an SMS saying "why did you give our client to your friend? That's not fair to us"
he said "I didn't know he was your client. One evening he just called me out of the blue asking if I am available for a job"
What do you guys think? I think a reasonable interpreter in his situation had a duty to ask "who are you? where did you get my number?" to make sure it's not a client of any agencies he works with.
How could the interpreter possibly not know that this is your client? He went to Company X on your assignment to interpret but billed to you, right? In his invoice he stated the job #, the assignment description, including client's name, and the rate. Or did he interpret in a dark alley with all participants in Halloween masks? So he knows that Company X IS your client. Having a non-compete with you, he is not being entirely honest, as a minimum.
The value of middleman here - in fact, it was him who found a job for the interpreter. It's not enough to be trained and talented - if not yourself, then someone else for a price, must know how to sell you, and to whom.
Now, the rest is a pretty bad mess. Of course, the interpreter was not supposed to ask the suggested ridiculous questions (allegedly, he knew "who they are") but something like "Sir, I am under a binding clause with the agency that brought us together, and you must request my services through them" but a big chance here is that the client would sent packing both the interpreter and the middleman and go elsewhere, just to avoid extra headache. Or they agreed on further contacts during the assignment. Or, maybe, the client terminated the relationship with you 2 days prior to...
On the other hand, what do you mean by "the client didn't even know that I am a middleman?" What is your legal standing with the client? Do you have a non-compete with them? How do you get paid for the jobs assigned if the clients don't have any idea that they deal with a middleman?
The whole story leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All 3 parties do not seem to be on their best behavior. Maybe I'm wrong...
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