| Stron w wątku: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | What would your dream translators' website provide? Autor wątku: XXXphxxx (X)
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| To be fair... | May 18, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote: Ty Kendall wrote:
A little less "openness" and a bit more exclusivity. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes think an open door policy is a good thing, but ProZ seems to have taken it to the extreme, there's not even a door. Just hinges where a door used to be. Not sure what benefit an open door policy provides apart from site traffic.
... the policy as such hasn't changed, in my view. But years ago, you had to know where to find the door, realise you needed a site like this, then go find it. As membership (in all senses) grew, so it became easier to find, even if you weren't looking (e.g. in those days, googling terms wouldn't bring up kudoz page hits as it does now). People were, in a sense, here because they actively wanted to be, rather than because they might as well be having found it without looking for it.
I am an erstwhile member of a site with a very exclusive policy (e.g. invitation only and you don't even get to see the content before you've paid). At the time I walked away, the only topics that generated any level of interest over a period of time were criticisms of proz, and how to find more members. Sometimes, there were no new threads for days. Too exclusive? I think arguably so.
So how do you filter the wheat from the chaff? If a site is invite only, the chaff doesn't know it's chaff and so there is no effect, but on the other hand, growth is slow. If you have an ostensibly open door, but reserve the right to openly reject people, then in this day and age, you have to be prepared to take the consequences on facebook, twitter, etc. I suspect the exclusivity angle would have to come from having a site that those you didn't want simply gained nothing from. How you would do that while retaining those you did want, God only knows.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X) 
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 19:23
portugalski > angielski
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | Two suggestions come to mind | May 18, 2012 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
So how do you filter the wheat from the chaff? If a site is invite only, the chaff doesn't know it's chaff and so there is no effect, but on the other hand, growth is slow. If you have an ostensibly open door, but reserve the right to openly reject people, then in this day and age, you have to be prepared to take the consequences on facebook, twitter, etc. I suspect the exclusivity angle would have to come from having a site that those you didn't want simply gained nothing from. How you would do that while retaining those you did want, God only knows.
1) Have a minimum respectable rate for job offers.
2) Limit KudoZ questions to... say 20, a month.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Holandia
Local time: 20:23
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006
angielski > afrikaans
+ ...
| My humble opinion | May 18, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
1) Have a minimum respectable rate for job offers.
2) Limit KudoZ questions to... say 20, a month.
The only reason why a too low rate would be a problem is if the person complaining about it lacks the skill to say "no" to such jobs. And the only reason why too many KudoZ questions is a problem is because the folks who complain about it are so addicted to it that they can't stop answering, and they want ProZ.com staff to help prevent them from spending all of their time on the internet.
| | | | | Like a drunk begging someone to pour his beers down the drain? | May 18, 2012 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
1) Have a minimum respectable rate for job offers.
2) Limit KudoZ questions to... say 20, a month. The only reason why a too low rate would be a problem is if the person complaining about it lacks the skill to say "no" to such jobs. And the only reason why too many KudoZ questions is a problem is because the folks who complain about it are so addicted to it that they can't stop answering, and they want ProZ.com staff to help prevent them from spending all of their time on the internet.
Actually, I think most of the complaining has more to do with translators feeling offended by the denigration of a site that they feel a more or less strong affinity with.
[Edited at 2012-05-19 12:04 GMT]
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XXXphxxx (X)
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 19:23
portugalski > angielski
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | It nips [some of] the problem in the bud | May 18, 2012 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The only reason why a too low rate would be a problem is if the person complaining about it lacks the skill to say "no" to such jobs. And the only reason why too many KudoZ questions is a problem is because the folks who complain about it are so addicted to it that they can't stop answering, and they want ProZ.com staff to help prevent them from spending all of their time on the internet.
I have no trouble at all saying 'No' to such jobs, nor do I lack the skill to do so but their mere existence allows for the presence of bottom feeders on the site and so the whole cycle starts. Shoddy outsourcers paying slave wages for sub-standard (that's being generous) work should be banished from the site.
| | | | | Open doors and closed doors | May 18, 2012 |
Charlie makes some excellent points. I agree with him fully that, despite its problems, proz.com is currently the best site, by far, for professional translators.
He is also spot on about the rather feeble benefits that an entirely exclusive site has to offer. If the goal is (as I think it is for most of us) showcasing what we have to offer to potential clients willing to pay what we charge for our services, then the equivalent of a hermetically sealed virtual secret society doesn't... See more Charlie makes some excellent points. I agree with him fully that, despite its problems, proz.com is currently the best site, by far, for professional translators.
He is also spot on about the rather feeble benefits that an entirely exclusive site has to offer. If the goal is (as I think it is for most of us) showcasing what we have to offer to potential clients willing to pay what we charge for our services, then the equivalent of a hermetically sealed virtual secret society doesn't quite make the grade.
This leaves us, then, with the great question: What might work?
What leaps to mind for me as a viable option would be, if you will, an unlocked door with a firm but friendly doorman. In terms of a portal for professional translators, this would involve setting the bar at a reasonable height to keep out people who are, by any definition, not professionals. It would also steer not only agencies, but potential direct clients, to itself.
Such a site would also, most definitely, set minimum limits on the fees offered for any jobs that are posted. After all, just as self-respecting professionals want to keep out wannabe colleagues that don't belong, they also don't want to have to see offers on the home page of their website for fees that are less than half of what they typically charge.
I would also prefer a website not completely inundated by, and beholden to, companies producing expensive software that claims to make our lives and work easier. If such a site could deliver exposure and work, the increased membership fee to compensate for reduced advertising (and not having to be constantly hounded with more indirect marketing activities such as training webinars) could be well worth it.
A professionally presented directory that does not encourage either inflated ratings or rhapsodic praise for normal professional practice would also be a desirable feature.
These are some preliminary off-the-cuff ideas, at any rate.
[Edited at 2012-05-18 21:13 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 19:23
portugalski > angielski
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | Excellent points...all of them | May 18, 2012 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
What leaps to mind for me as a viable option would be, if you will, an unlocked door with a firm but friendly doorman. In terms of a portal for professional translators, this would involve setting the bar at a reasonable height to keep out people who are, by any definition, not professionals.
[Edited at 2012-05-18 21:13 GMT]
How does one set the bar though?
| | | | Germaine
Kanada
Local time: 14:23
angielski > francuski
+ ...
| flashing ads and things | May 18, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
...I'm a sucker for visuals, so my dream translator's website would provide a visual feast - graphics, flashing things, animations - but I realise these aren't everybody's cup of tea and some people see them as unprofessional and positively loathe them.
For an epileptic, flashing ads and things, and even some bright colorful animations, are a big no-no-please! Having your screen covered with opaque post-its kind of spoil the pleasure...
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Ty Kendall
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 19:23
hebrajski > angielski
| Wasn't talking about strobe lighting or anything | May 18, 2012 |
Germaine wrote: Ty Kendall wrote:
...I'm a sucker for visuals, so my dream translator's website would provide a visual feast - graphics, flashing things, animations - but I realise these aren't everybody's cup of tea and some people see them as unprofessional and positively loathe them.
For an epileptic, flashing ads and things, and even some bright colorful animations, are a big no-no-please! Having your screen covered with opaque post-its kind of spoil the pleasure...
Just something a bit more colourful, a bit more interesting than the current Proz-type anodyne colour scheme and graphics (or lack thereof).
| | | | Ty Kendall
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 19:23
hebrajski > angielski
| What's a bit sad is.... | May 18, 2012 |
That the only visually impressive things on ProZ are the vulgar marketing ads. They seem to be the only element where aesthetics were considered.
Even the ProZ logo, not exactly groundbreaking is it....although with the "O" looking like crosshairs you have to wonder who they are targeting!
| | | | Oliver Walter
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 19:23
niemiecki > angielski
+ ...
| Browsable forums | May 18, 2012 |
If the website has something like the Forums of ProZ, the "dream" version will enable a member to browse the "latest posts" in reverse chronological order covering at least the preceding 7 days, preferably a whole month or even more. ProZ provides browsing for about 2 days of "most recent posts", has responded to our requests for more than 2 days with some positive noises but by now it is clear that ProZ has decided it will not provide more than the present 2 days. See, for example... See more If the website has something like the Forums of ProZ, the "dream" version will enable a member to browse the "latest posts" in reverse chronological order covering at least the preceding 7 days, preferably a whole month or even more. ProZ provides browsing for about 2 days of "most recent posts", has responded to our requests for more than 2 days with some positive noises but by now it is clear that ProZ has decided it will not provide more than the present 2 days. See, for example, this:
http://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums/140276-number_of_topics_shown_on_the_latest_posts_list-page2.html
Oliver
[Edited at 2012-05-19 09:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Each to his own but... | May 18, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote: That the only visually impressive things on ProZ are the vulgar marketing ads. They seem to be the only element where aesthetics were considered. Even the ProZ logo, not exactly groundbreaking is it....although with the "O" looking like crosshairs you have to wonder who they are targeting!
Yeah, the logo sucks, see threads passim ad infinitum.
But the general design works well, in my view. Did you see the Watercooler ? Great site in the ideas it had, but so much crap flying at you from all angles you hardly knew where to look. That invite-only site I mentioned - search function from hell (you were better off with pen and paper jotting down stuff you might want to refer to later). (Note to Lisa, whatever kind of site you have, make sure the bloody thing works!)
Thing is, the way I see it, clean and simple works well, and you might beef about it but you're still here having your say, every day. People who don't like busy sites, they tend to really not like busy sites (they make their eyes bleed) and they don't come back.
(That said, we seem to have a first now - a front page ad that pushes all the content down the page so all I see is the ad. Which is rubbish design.)
[Edited at 2012-05-18 23:16 GMT]
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| You're setting your targets too low | May 18, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote: Charlie Bavington wrote:
So how do you filter the wheat from the chaff? If a site is invite only, the chaff doesn't know it's chaff and so there is no effect, but on the other hand, growth is slow. If you have an ostensibly open door, but reserve the right to openly reject people, then in this day and age, you have to be prepared to take the consequences on facebook, twitter, etc. I suspect the exclusivity angle would have to come from having a site that those you didn't want simply gained nothing from. How you would do that while retaining those you did want, God only knows. 1) Have a minimum respectable rate for job offers. 2) Limit KudoZ questions to... say 20, a month.
Meh, nit-picking specifics of little or no interest as regards a website aimed at actual professionals. If I'd thought all you wanted to do was tweak proz, I wouldn't have wasted my breath What did I say about making a website where undesirables (definition TBC) woudn't want to linger anyway?
If you had the right calibre of membership, people posting crap jobs for crap money wouldn't waste much time there, because they'd get no bites.
If you had the right calibre of membership, you wouldn't need limits on anything, because if, in your example, a member needed to ask 20 questions a day, you would be very sure there was an excellent reason for it. If you needed to ask 20 questions a month, every month, I'd wonder whether you were really working in the right fields. Of course, on our hypothetical website, I woud at least be free to express that view, vigorously, every month
| | | | | Setting the bar | May 19, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote: Robert Forstag wrote:
What leaps to mind for me as a viable option would be, if you will, an unlocked door with a firm but friendly doorman. In terms of a portal for professional translators, this would involve setting the bar at a reasonable height to keep out people who are, by any definition, not professionals.
[Edited at 2012-05-18 21:13 GMT] How does one set the bar though?
***
I would advocate setting the bar high enough to keep out those who are clearly not professional, but not so high so that good translators are turned away. The kind of inclusion criteria I have in mind would involve some combination of experience and formal education, along the lines of ATA's criteria for sitting for one of its certification exams. Criteria would also have to be reasonable enough to admit younger and novice translators who have decent skills but who are still learning the craft (and who are committed to their professional development).
As important as formal criteria is (as Charlie suggests) the culture that would be fostered on such a site, which would ideally make things very uncomfortable for any parisitic type who might slip through the cracks. Similarly, there would not be the kind of enabling that goes under the name of "friendliness" and "good citizenship."
[Edited at 2012-05-19 00:49 GMT]
| | | | | Open doors and closed doors [addendum re transparency and responsiveness] | May 19, 2012 |
Two important elements of a site serving the interests of professional translators bear special mention: the transparency of the site's overall mission, on the one hand, and the forthrightness of its staff in responding to members' concerns, on the other.
Thus, if a site contends that it serves the interests of professional translators, then it ought to be able to explain everything it does in a clear and convincing way in terms of that stated mission. Similarly, when concerns are ... See more Two important elements of a site serving the interests of professional translators bear special mention: the transparency of the site's overall mission, on the one hand, and the forthrightness of its staff in responding to members' concerns, on the other.
Thus, if a site contends that it serves the interests of professional translators, then it ought to be able to explain everything it does in a clear and convincing way in terms of that stated mission. Similarly, when concerns are expressed by site members--especially concerns bearing directly on the site's purported mission--one would not expect such concerns to be ignored, or to receive responses that could in any way be characterized as stonewalling or brain dead.
[Edited at 2012-05-19 01:01 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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