| Σελίδες για το θέμα: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Kudoz abuse Αποστολέας σε συζήτηση: Timothy Barton
|
|---|
When I first joined ProZ, over 10 years ago now I think, this question was already being banded about. Subsequent limits were imposed which I think, from memory, limit the number of questions a person can post within a given time limit. There are other restrictions too. Limits can and have been set. Those limits have to be respected and I think that some of them have been integrated into the system. Beyond that, if I question gets up your nose, then you do not have to reply.
When t... See more When I first joined ProZ, over 10 years ago now I think, this question was already being banded about. Subsequent limits were imposed which I think, from memory, limit the number of questions a person can post within a given time limit. There are other restrictions too. Limits can and have been set. Those limits have to be respected and I think that some of them have been integrated into the system. Beyond that, if I question gets up your nose, then you do not have to reply.
When the debate was first up and around way back, when someone stated that there was no obligation to reply, it suddenly became obvious. I would feel that someone was pushing the limits of politeness in feeding questions into the system waiting for someone else's thought processes, time and energy to spit out possible solutions and that those people should be wise enough not to do that. They are not. The proof is that it still happens and always will to an extent. Indeed, over time, what I appreciate still less, is the posting of some rather raw comments about this type of post on the KudoZ page concerned. I think it much more professional to show by example and suggest that it was quite straightforward and hope that the person actually picks up hints and advice. If they don't, that is not your problem. Don't waste time and energy on it. Even you want to worry yourself wild about how some clients are receiving off target translations, think about all those who are translating "professionally", radically off-target and without even thinking of asking for help.
When I started out, I had a more purist view. Sometimes I will spend quite a bit of time on a question because I get interested in it. Indeed, I am increasingly surprised by certain choices which simply indicate lack of fairly basic grammar and richness of vocabulary in either source or target language, sometimes both! Failings of this sort are revealed not only by the question put, often also by the final choice made.
I am on ProZ to help and because I care. However, I do not expect everyone to agree with me, nor do I get it right all of the time. Do not lose sight either of what you gain from contributing. In assisting others, you gain knowledge and potential sources and ways of doing things in observing how others approach a problem. I have learnt and awful lot from ProZ and still do.
I think there are ways of suggesting politely that a person is pushing it a bit with the obvious choice of not answering if it gets up your nose. Screeching hard at folk that they are abusing the system gets noone anywhere... even if I feel like doing so sometimes. I prefer just to let it go. These sorts of posters have always been around and I reckon they always will be. Controlled a little, excluded from the site? I don't think that is possible. Whatever field of work I have been involved in, there have always been varying levels of competence around. The most competent people are not always on the top of the heap.
Final word, do not forget that some folk prefer to put all of their questions one after the other at the end of a piece they are working on (or indeed at the start on the first read when they see problem terms).
[Edited at 2011-12-29 15:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Cetacea 
Ελβετία
Local time: 11:06
Αγγλικά σε Γερμανικά
+ ...
| Flabbergasted rather than just amazed | Dec 29, 2011 |
B D Finch wrote:
I am amazed that respectable contributors to KudoZ still answer her questions and I think they should be ashamed of helping her continue this abuse.
That's what I don't get: Why is anbody still answering her questions? Even if you come across such a mass of questions by the same asker for the first time, all it takes is mousing over the person's name to see their questions/answers ratio and realize what you're dealing with. So please, people, stop letting such abusers make fools of yourselves.
| | | | | Coincidence? | Dec 29, 2011 |
I noticed something fairly troubling a week or so ago. A job was posted for the urgent translation of an insurance-related document - not long after the job was closed, the translator being referred to in this thread started submitting a steady stream of insurance-related questions. Now this could be nothing more than a coincidence, but if not, that means she is bidding for jobs that are clearly outside her area of expertise and then relying on the goodwill of more qualified translators (or at l... See more I noticed something fairly troubling a week or so ago. A job was posted for the urgent translation of an insurance-related document - not long after the job was closed, the translator being referred to in this thread started submitting a steady stream of insurance-related questions. Now this could be nothing more than a coincidence, but if not, that means she is bidding for jobs that are clearly outside her area of expertise and then relying on the goodwill of more qualified translators (or at least those that still answer her questions) to bail her out… in which case, KudoZ is not the only site feature being abused. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 10:06
Εβραϊκά σε Αγγλικά
Rachel Fell wrote:
Ty Kendall wrote:
Since it's Christmas, how about we pool together and buy her a decent bilingual dictionary?
...it'd have to be a multi-lingual one, wouldn't it?
Don't get me started on those language pairs!
| | |
|
|
|
Dave Bindon
Ελλάδα
Local time: 12:06
Ελληνικά σε Αγγλικά
Εις μνήμην | Christmas prezzie | Dec 29, 2011 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
Since it's Christmas, how about we pool together and buy her a decent bilingual dictionary?
I'll contribute a few beginner-level "teach yourself" language books to add to her collection.
Disclaimer:
I have no idea who everyone is talking about and I'm just trying to join in the joke (and it is a joke).
I have not looked at this person's recent Kudoz questions, in language pairs which I do not work in, and therefore it is not possible for me to have laughed at how many of the questions I could have answered.
I have not commented on any neckwear (which, I hasten to add, I have only read about).
I have not read this person's CV (twice), just for laughs.
Since I have NOT read this person's CV I cannot have seen this person's educational background. If, however, this person happens to have listed 2 GCSEs in languages, I'd like to point out that GCSE exams are very basic: I worked through the 1st half of a GCSE Spanish textbook in a week, and a whole GCSE Swedish course in a month (whilst drunk: it was Christmas!). But, of course, I'm not suggesting that GCSE level is not really sufficient for legal translations (which this person, who is unknown to me, may or may not have mentioned in the CV that I have not read).
I own, or have owned, many beginner-level language books, so suggesting that this person (whose identity is still a mystery to me) has a collection of them is in no way derogatory. Indeed, I owned a beginner-level book in my working language...when I was 10.
There, moderators, are you satisfied that I have not - in any way - criticised the abilities of a professional translator? I've just contributed to an on-going hypothetical chat about somebody posing as a professional translator.
Merry Xmas to all the pros!
| | | | Ty Kendall
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 10:06
Εβραϊκά σε Αγγλικά
| Jaw dropping | Dec 29, 2011 |
I remember my GCSE days. For those who are unaware, a typical GCSE sentence would be something like:
"Wo ist das Schwimmbad?"
or
"Ich habe keine Geschwister".
...at a stretch you might be expected to know something like:
"Ich schwimme sehr gern, aber das Schwimmbad war geschlossen."
Indeed, it would be very disconcerting if someone (hypothetically) was translating from a language they only reached GCSE level in. - GCSE is woefully i... See more I remember my GCSE days. For those who are unaware, a typical GCSE sentence would be something like:
"Wo ist das Schwimmbad?"
or
"Ich habe keine Geschwister".
...at a stretch you might be expected to know something like:
"Ich schwimme sehr gern, aber das Schwimmbad war geschlossen."
Indeed, it would be very disconcerting if someone (hypothetically) was translating from a language they only reached GCSE level in. - GCSE is woefully insufficient even for a source language.
What would be even more sinful, is to acknowledge a "basic" knowledge of a language, then list it as a source language (presumably without even reaching GCSE level).
If this were real......What a crazy world that would be eh.
Edited for a typo
[Edited at 2011-12-30 08:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Excellent idea! | Dec 29, 2011 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
....it's hard for me to get angry about it since it's not my language pair, although I can see how others would be frustrated by it.
Since it's Christmas, how about we pool together and buy her a decent bilingual dictionary?
I'd immediately contribute with 1 virtual Euro. It's extremely unlikely that I'll ever answer any of her question, as our language pairs are completely different, but I am always ready to help.
BTW Dave, your post is hilarious:-)
| | | | | Stop the witch-hunt | Dec 29, 2011 |
In my opinion you guys should stop the witch-hunt. I would rather use the services of a translator who asks a lot of questions, has a background of being a published author and 15 WWA entries than any of the group of holier-than-thou witch hunters.
You might not agree with what this person is doing, but there is a mechanism to filter her. Use it, but stop the wailing - in my opinion it is just disgusting.
| | |
|
|
|
Ty Kendall
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 10:06
Εβραϊκά σε Αγγλικά
| Conflicting evidence | Dec 29, 2011 |
To some extent, you have a point...there are grounds to believe the translator in question is not entirely without merit. (The 15WWAs for example).
However, I do not believe any such "witch hunt" has taken place.
"witch hunt
noun
an intensive effort to discover and expose disloyalty, subversion, dishonesty, or the like, usually based on slight, doubtful, or irrelevant evidence."
In this case, (unfortunately) the preponderance of evid... See more To some extent, you have a point...there are grounds to believe the translator in question is not entirely without merit. (The 15WWAs for example).
However, I do not believe any such "witch hunt" has taken place.
"witch hunt
noun
an intensive effort to discover and expose disloyalty, subversion, dishonesty, or the like, usually based on slight, doubtful, or irrelevant evidence."
In this case, (unfortunately) the preponderance of evidence (on KudoZ) is anything but "slight, doubtful or irrelevant".
As others have pointed out, what offends them is not the sheer number of questions - which is bad enough - but the fact that so many of them are so easily answered and should not be asked by someone who calls themselves a "professional" translator. If someone asks a question which can be answered using a dictionary, or 10 seconds on Google, then people are going to question the salt of the asker in question. If this person then asks countless questions of this type, then people will do more than question, they will despair - which is clearly what translators in the language pair in question are doing. I can't blame them for that...and engaging in some harmless banter, which names no names is hardly a witch hunt. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Giles Watson
Ιταλία
Local time: 11:06
Ιταλικά σε Αγγλικά
Εις μνήμην
Siegfried has a point, Ty.
The extremely open format of the Proz.com site means that (for example) a pre-teen language genius could set up a profile and use it to ask all manner of questions, some obvious, others more challenging and yet others frankly ridiculous.
What's the problem?
After all, anyone can make a dodgy posting but these are quickly flagged up and the posters generally mend their ways.
Being a paying member of Proz, or even a Pro... See more Siegfried has a point, Ty.
The extremely open format of the Proz.com site means that (for example) a pre-teen language genius could set up a profile and use it to ask all manner of questions, some obvious, others more challenging and yet others frankly ridiculous.
What's the problem?
After all, anyone can make a dodgy posting but these are quickly flagged up and the posters generally mend their ways.
Being a paying member of Proz, or even a Proz-certified translator, means nothing in the real world (I am both, so I know). Why not just let other Proz contributors ask whatever Kudoz questions they want to and answer the ones that interest you?
That way you're happy, everyone else will thank you for your contributions and perhaps someone will learn something, making the world a better place . ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 10:06
Εβραϊκά σε Αγγλικά
| The irony is.... | Dec 29, 2011 |
I don't have a problem with it, like I said it hardly affects me as it isn't my language pair.
I do, however, think there is legitimate cause for concern with the issue - although not with one specific translator - I think the issue is bigger than that - in fact, it's a whole bunch of issues really - claiming a non-native language as native, too many language pairs, source languages you don't have a good grasp of etc....on top of the perceived "kudoz abuse" - all of which are rife o... See more I don't have a problem with it, like I said it hardly affects me as it isn't my language pair.
I do, however, think there is legitimate cause for concern with the issue - although not with one specific translator - I think the issue is bigger than that - in fact, it's a whole bunch of issues really - claiming a non-native language as native, too many language pairs, source languages you don't have a good grasp of etc....on top of the perceived "kudoz abuse" - all of which are rife on here and cannot be assigned to a lone translator.
I actually agreed that Siegfried had a point, and I acknowledged that. As already mentioned, this is not my language pair and I would like to think I am more impartial than some of the other posters (my initial reaction when I read the first batch of posts was to defend, rather than attack).
However, the "complainers" if that's what you want to call them also have a point (or a few points).
I also think there's another issue at hand. I think there's a distinction to be made between "witch hunting" and merely calling for excellence in one's chosen profession. I have the (mis?)fortune of also being a teacher, and it's very hard to be a bad teacher nowadays, there are support systems, continual professional development (CPD), peer observations and feedback...all kinds of mechanisms to ensure that teachers are qualified and capable of doing their job. Now, I know that translation is different, de-regulated, but that shouldn't deter people from seeking excellence in the profession and having reservations when they witness bad practice...and clearly there are other translators on here who feel that what they have witnessed is bad practice. In this instance, the only recourse left to them (filtering and ignoring) does not seem satisfactory. There are some translators who feel that beyond the world of Proz, that such practice is detrimental to clients and subsequently to the profession as a whole....I feel like I'm losing my point (I'm getting snoozy) but you get the idea...
I'm way too invested in this now, I only wanted to make a joke...(why does humour always bite me in the gluteus maximus on here)
All I did was have a few quips in response to other quips (in an attempt to defuse the tension).
If you can't laugh at these things.... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dave Bindon
Ελλάδα
Local time: 12:06
Ελληνικά σε Αγγλικά
Εις μνήμην | Generalization | Dec 29, 2011 |
Giles Watson wrote:
After all, anyone can make a dodgy posting but these are quickly flagged up and the posters generally mend their ways.
We're talking about someone who has not made "a" dodgy posting, but someone who has not learnt a thing from the many questions
which have been down-graded to non-Pro.
| | |
|
|
|
Dave Bindon
Ελλάδα
Local time: 12:06
Ελληνικά σε Αγγλικά
Εις μνήμην | New vs incompetent | Dec 29, 2011 |
Giles Watson wrote:
a pre-teen language genius could set up a profile and use it to ask all manner of questions, some obvious, others more challenging and yet others frankly ridiculous.
What's the problem?
I'd answer every question I was capable of answering if the profile showed that the asker was, in any way, a "newbie".
| | | | Marina Steinbach
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 05:06
Μέλος από 2011
Αγγλικά σε Γερμανικά
| It cannot be abuse. | Dec 30, 2011 |
Otherwise the moderator would take measures against this behavior, or not?
[Edited at 2011-12-30 16:46 GMT]
| | | | | 10 seconds of Google fame | Dec 30, 2011 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
To some extent, you have a point...there are grounds to believe the translator in question is not entirely without merit. (The 15WWAs for example).
However, I do not believe any such "witch hunt" has taken place.
"witch hunt
noun
an intensive effort to discover and expose disloyalty, subversion, dishonesty, or the like, usually based on slight, doubtful, or irrelevant evidence."
In this case, (unfortunately) the preponderance of evidence (on KudoZ) is anything but "slight, doubtful or irrelevant".
As others have pointed out, what offends them is not the sheer number of questions - which is bad enough - but the fact that so many of them are so easily answered and should not be asked by someone who calls themselves a "professional" translator. If someone asks a question which can be answered using a dictionary, or 10 seconds on Google, then people are going to question the salt of the asker in question. If this person then asks countless questions of this type, then people will do more than question, they will despair - which is clearly what translators in the language pair in question are doing. I can't blame them for that...and engaging in some harmless banter, which names no names is hardly a witch hunt.
| | | | | Σελίδες για το θέμα: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Kudoz abuse | Pastey | Your smart companion app
Pastey is an innovative desktop application that bridges the gap between human expertise and artificial intelligence. With intuitive keyboard shortcuts, Pastey transforms your source text into AI-powered draft translations.
Find out more » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
