| Σελίδες για το θέμα: [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Should questions be posted on KudoZ by non-native speakers? Αποστολέας σε συζήτηση: XXXphxxx (X)
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XXXphxxx (X) 
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 09:56
Πορτογαλικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
Let me first clarify: should I for example, who normally translate from say, Spanish into English, take on a job from English into Spanish and then post a question(s) on KudoZ, relying on the goodwill and time of my colleagues to help me with my translation?
I’m sure this topic must have been covered elsewhere, yet I cannot find it. I’ve seen discussions on whether non-native speakers should ANSWER KudoZ questions but not on whether they should ASK them.
Every now... See more Let me first clarify: should I for example, who normally translate from say, Spanish into English, take on a job from English into Spanish and then post a question(s) on KudoZ, relying on the goodwill and time of my colleagues to help me with my translation?
I’m sure this topic must have been covered elsewhere, yet I cannot find it. I’ve seen discussions on whether non-native speakers should ANSWER KudoZ questions but not on whether they should ASK them.
Every now and then I try and help colleagues by answering KudoZ questions. However, it doesn’t take long before I become frustrated by the number of questions posted by people translating into their non-native language and I then ask myself whether I’m simply supporting bad translation practices and give up answering. A question was posted today with a proposed translation that showed the poster was incapable of rendering a French legal document into coherent English, let alone ‘legalese’. Is anyone else bothered by this and do we think that a valuable tool is being lost because other translators are walking away from KudoZ, equally disheartened? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jack Doughty
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 09:56
Ρωσικά σε Αγγλικά
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Εις μνήμην | I don't think you can generalize. | Feb 28, 2012 |
I know that in the RussianEnglish pair there are several excellent translators of Russian into English whose native language is Russian (as well as others who are not so good), and I would not want to deny the good ones a helping hand when they need it just for the sake of keeping the others out.
| | | | Ty Kendall
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 09:56
Εβραϊκά σε Αγγλικά
| Necessary evil | Feb 28, 2012 |
I think Jack is right, it's a similar situation in Hebrew-English i.e. that there are some excellent translators into English whose native language isn't (English). So this problem isn't such an issue in my pair, but....
I can understand your frustration though, I have seen total and utter nonsense in other language pairs which just makes me glad I don't work in those particular pairs.
...I really don't agree with translation by non-native speakers of the target ... See more I think Jack is right, it's a similar situation in Hebrew-English i.e. that there are some excellent translators into English whose native language isn't (English). So this problem isn't such an issue in my pair, but....
I can understand your frustration though, I have seen total and utter nonsense in other language pairs which just makes me glad I don't work in those particular pairs.
...I really don't agree with translation by non-native speakers of the target language, so when I do spot a question where I suspect this is the case, I simply choose not to answer it, as by answering I feel I would be helping to perpetuate the practice.
[Edited at 2012-02-28 20:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Giles Watson
Ιταλία
Local time: 10:56
Ιταλικά σε Αγγλικά
Εις μνήμην | It's the question, not the asker | Feb 28, 2012 |
Apart from questions in my specialisations - where I want the Kudoz points  - I'll answer anything that looks interesting if I think I have something to contribute and/or learn. Other answers, discussion entries and even the way the asker allots the points can all be very illuminating.
After all, it's just a bit of fun (apart from those questions in my specialisations!).
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neilmac
Ισπανία
Local time: 10:56
Ισπανικά σε Αγγλικά
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Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
... seen discussions on whether non-native speakers should ANSWER KudoZ questions but not on whether they should ASK them.
... Is anyone else bothered by this...?
Yes, I am irked by non-native translators in general - albeit with a few really good and professional exceptions - as I see them as market busters who can also get native translators a bad name. I don't go touting myself as a Spanish translator, and if I ever do get cajoled into taking on a job into Spanish it is always with a capable native speaker backup, so I expect the same courtesy.
However, I don't really mind who asks or answers the kudoz questions because you can usually spot the (insert deprecating epithet of choice) a mile away and sometimes you can have a right good chortle at them...
| | | | Rossinka
Ιταλία
Local time: 10:56
Ιταλικά σε Ρωσικά
+ ...
| May be someone is bored, | Feb 28, 2012 |
but I have a lot of Kudoz (English into Italian),
and I'm native Russian.
These Kudoz were assigned to me by Italian native askers
because they chose MY answer among those given by Italian natives.
| | | | lidija68
Ιταλία
Local time: 10:56
Ιταλικά σε Σερβικά
+ ...
I've also asked and answered a couple of questions in the “wrong” language pair!
Lidija
| | | | Neil Coffey
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 09:56
Γαλλικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
| Important to separate out terminology issues and L2 errors | Feb 28, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
take on a job from English into Spanish and then post a question(s) on KudoZ, relying on the goodwill and time of my colleagues to help me with my translation?
As I see things, KudoZ should be about *terminology*, but beyond that I don't see that it matters whether the source or target language is the asker's (or indeed answerer's) native language. In many cases, knowledge of terminology is more about which language *environment* you have been exposed to than a question of your native language. A native French speaker who has spent 10 years working in a British school is likely to have more knowledge of English education terminology than an average English native pulled in "off the street". A native English speaker who is 'generally proficient' in French and who goes through pregnancy and has a baby in France will likely acquire much more knowledge of French maternity-related terminology than an average French native who has never had a baby. So within certain parameters, I don't think that native language is a major criterion for people's legitimacy in posting or replying to KudoZ postings (or indeed translating in a particular direction per se, but that's another debate).
*However*, for KudoZ to continue fulfilling its underlying purpose, people clearly have to have *some* basic competence of both the source and target language, native or non-native. I haven't seen too many examples of this in my pair, but if KudoZ questions are in effect becoming requests to correct basic L2 errors, then I think that should be outlawed simply on the grounds that it's using KudoZ for something it wasn't intended to be used for (aside from any issues of abusing people's patience etc).
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XXXphxxx (X)
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 09:56
Πορτογαλικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
ΞΕΚΙΝΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ | Nothing wrong with answering | Feb 28, 2012 |
lidija68 wrote:
I've also asked and answered a couple of questions in the “wrong” language pair!
Lidija
Maybe not posting an actual answer but certainly posting a discussion entry, in fact that should be encouraged. Sometimes all that is needed is for a native speaker of the source to come along and elucidate and the translator can often then find the term they're looking for. More than once I've seen cases where it's just a typo, a missing word, and that can completely throw you, a native speaker of the source would spot it immediately and those contributions can be incredibly helpful. No, it's not the answering in the 'wrong' language pair that I'm troubled by, it's the asking.
| | | | Michele Fauble
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 02:56
Νορβηγικά σε Αγγλικά
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| The near-native non-native | Feb 28, 2012 |
There is nothing wrong with a non-native speaker translating into a non-native target language or asking a KudoZ question if the translator has native or near-native written proficiency in the non-native target language. However too many of those who translate into a non-native language lack the requisite proficiency.
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Καναδάς
Local time: 02:56
Ολλανδικά σε Αγγλικά
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| Some thoughts | Feb 29, 2012 |
You need to take into account that sometimes people have little choice but to translate in the "wrong" language combination. In another recent post, for example, it was pointed out that there are very few native English-speaking translators who know Polish well enough to translate from Polish to English. So it is mostly native Polish-speaking translators who know English well enough to translate in that pair, even though that is thought to be the "wrong" pair for them. And yes, they may sometime... See more You need to take into account that sometimes people have little choice but to translate in the "wrong" language combination. In another recent post, for example, it was pointed out that there are very few native English-speaking translators who know Polish well enough to translate from Polish to English. So it is mostly native Polish-speaking translators who know English well enough to translate in that pair, even though that is thought to be the "wrong" pair for them. And yes, they may sometimes have to ask a few questions to get the English just right.
This whole idea of "thou SHALT NOT translate from thy mother tongue into another language" bothers me because it often depends on people's personal history and the circumstances in the country where they live. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neil Coffey
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 09:56
Γαλλικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
| Translating into non-native language | Feb 29, 2012 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
This whole idea of "thou SHALT NOT translate from thy mother tongue into another language" bothers me because it often depends on people's personal history and the circumstances in the country where they live.
It is also an adage dreamt up in an era when being a "native speaker" was pretty much the only practical way (or at least, only commercially viable way) of making language decisions which can now be made via a simple Google search, Skype call to a colleague, forum post etc.
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Nicole Schnell
Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες Αμερικής
Local time: 01:56
Αγγλικά σε Γερμανικά
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Εις μνήμην
Maybe they are in the middle of a required back-translation, are in need of help in terminology to improve communication with a Spanish-native PM who speaks broken English only, yet wishes to discuss German terminology, or because they were hired to specifically decipher some source text from hell.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Ηνωμένο Βασίλειο
Local time: 09:56
Πορτογαλικά σε Αγγλικά
+ ...
ΞΕΚΙΝΗΣΕ ΤΟ ΘΕΜΑ | Back translations aside | Feb 29, 2012 |
I’m not talking about the odd piece of terminology here and there, of course that wouldn’t bother anybody. I’m talking about dozens of terms, on a daily basis. On occasion a full target proposed sentence is written out and the result is virtually unintelligible - clearly neither a back translation nor a competent forward one. I am sure that this has turned off many other translators who would be willing and able to help and I find it a terrible shame because it could be a very useful resou... See more I’m not talking about the odd piece of terminology here and there, of course that wouldn’t bother anybody. I’m talking about dozens of terms, on a daily basis. On occasion a full target proposed sentence is written out and the result is virtually unintelligible - clearly neither a back translation nor a competent forward one. I am sure that this has turned off many other translators who would be willing and able to help and I find it a terrible shame because it could be a very useful resource for all of us. I can only legitimately judge the English, and perhaps target English is where the majority of offences occur due to the paucity of native English linguists, but I am astonished at the number of translators who claim to translate both ways when it is evident from their forum posts that they are not of native English standard. It’s a simple question but gets a lot of people terribly hot under the collar – on both sides of the debate.
Michelle, I agree that there are SOME excellent near-native non-natives but I do believe that there are so few of those that they barely come into the equation. ▲ Collapse
| | | | nordiste
Γαλλία
Local time: 10:56
Αγγλικά σε Γαλλικά
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| not a new Kudoz rule # 99999 please ! | Feb 29, 2012 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Maybe they are in the middle of a required back-translation, are in need of help in terminology to improve communication with a Spanish-native PM who speaks broken English only, yet wishes to discuss German terminology, or because they were hired to specifically decipher some source text from hell.
There is a lot more to Kudoz than just: "I am an EN>FR translator, currently translating from English into French and I cannot understand this word, please help and it is urgent".
And of course nobody has to answer a question if they feel that a request for help is not "right".
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