During rate negotiation, HR offers less than original rate: How to handle? Thread poster: Holly Hart
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Holly Hart 
United States
Local time: 09:58
Member (2002)
German to English
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Please note the difference between source and target words in this piece: I am negotiating with HR over their Trados rate scale. I told them my rate was 16 cents/target word. If I accept their fuzzies scale, I would get paid for ex. 16 cents/source word and 5 cents for editing. I countered that in this case, I would need 18 cents/ source word (because my normal rate is 16 cents/target word, citing expansion of text during translation G->E). They countered with let's negotiate. So I came back wit... See more Please note the difference between source and target words in this piece: I am negotiating with HR over their Trados rate scale. I told them my rate was 16 cents/target word. If I accept their fuzzies scale, I would get paid for ex. 16 cents/source word and 5 cents for editing. I countered that in this case, I would need 18 cents/ source word (because my normal rate is 16 cents/target word, citing expansion of text during translation G->E). They countered with let's negotiate. So I came back with 17 cents. And they came back with 15 cents! (And an extra penny for editing jobs). I am astonished! How can they go lower than the rate originally proposed? Because if I had agreed to the rate in the first place, they would have sent out the contract and the contract would have been done for 16 cents. What would you do? This is a legit company with almost 5 stars on the BlueBoard. Would you say, OK, lets go back to the original 16 cents/5 cents (and then only take jobs from them when you have nothing from better paying clients?) Or just send an email and say, how can you offer less when you would have had to sign off on the 16 cents had I accepted your original offer? ▲ Collapse
| | | | William Tierney
United States
Local time: 10:58
Member (2002)
Arabic to English
| If you can afford to walk away . . . | May 9, 2023 |
It all depends how badly you need the work. If you don't, then I would walk. Is the original in digital or scanned format? It is common to go with a source rate for digital and target for scan. Don't take an agency's fuzzy rates as is. You bought the CAT tool, you spent the time learning it, you deal with the tech issues that pop up. You should get the benefit from the efficiency.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:58
Serbian to English
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| Ignore them completely | May 9, 2023 |
and start looking elsewhere.
If they contact you after some time, ask them the rates you asked the first time around. On a take-it-or-leave-it basis.
They are too much used to people whose negotiating skills boil down to "where do I sign?".
| | | | Holly Hart
United States
Local time: 09:58
Member (2002)
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for your input | May 10, 2023 |
I appreciate the opinions of William and Daryo - I guess I was surprised to find HR to be so unprofessional by going down in rates and this makes me reluctant to proceed.
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 17:58
Member
English to Turkish
| Completely unacceptable! You should make a BB entry! | May 10, 2023 |
I'm dumbstruck and appalled at such low rates at this day and age. How dare they can go from 16 cents per word to 15 cents per word?? Even the most self-respecting bottom-feeder would get offended and walk away in the face of such effrontery! Honestly, I can't believe this...
You should make a BB entry and let others know of such low rates and insulting negotiation tactics employed by this agency. I mean 15 cents per word??? What's this world coming to?? Jesus Christ!!!
Yes, like th... See more I'm dumbstruck and appalled at such low rates at this day and age. How dare they can go from 16 cents per word to 15 cents per word?? Even the most self-respecting bottom-feeder would get offended and walk away in the face of such effrontery! Honestly, I can't believe this...
You should make a BB entry and let others know of such low rates and insulting negotiation tactics employed by this agency. I mean 15 cents per word??? What's this world coming to?? Jesus Christ!!!
Yes, like that person says "They are too much used to people whose negotiating skills boil down to "where do I sign?" ▲ Collapse
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I might be wrong, but from what you say they may have gone from 16 per source to 15 per target, which my maths says is actually an increase based on the numbers you give.
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Negociating is part of getting new returning clients. Or not.
When I offer rates to agencies (most use some kind of CAT discount grids), I always state my word rate based on a sustainable discount grid around 25/60/100, no fuzzies-to-be, with fuzzies in the 85%-99% concordance band. From there, they implicitly know that I know about rip-off CAT discount stunts and "feature" box-checking to decrease weighted wordcounts. This is why some basic CAT tool skills related to "weighted" wor... See more Negociating is part of getting new returning clients. Or not.
When I offer rates to agencies (most use some kind of CAT discount grids), I always state my word rate based on a sustainable discount grid around 25/60/100, no fuzzies-to-be, with fuzzies in the 85%-99% concordance band. From there, they implicitly know that I know about rip-off CAT discount stunts and "feature" box-checking to decrease weighted wordcounts. This is why some basic CAT tool skills related to "weighted" wordcount calculations are a nice-to-have to avoid prospects from taking the mickey with your livelihood.
If nevertheless the agency comes back with a joke like "here-is-our-discount-grid-which-is-in-essence-a-cut-on-your-hourly-earnings-because-it's fully-disconnected-from-time-savings-CAT-discounts-are-supposed-to-reflect", then I apply my negociation skills towards increasing my "full" word rate or making their CAT grid more palatable, or accept their conditions while letting them know that I'll turn down their projects with high proportions of fuzzies because it wouldn't be worth my trouble.
I must say that I don't haggle over CAT discounts very often, as most prospects run away as soon as I disclose my standard word rate. They don't even try a 0/0/0 discount grid with fuzzies from a 0% concordance rate.
Source/target differences are a non-issue. I set rates based on how my productivity (which I know) and much I want/need to earn per working hour. Translation from German is suitable to rates based on characters because German can build up several concepts into one word, therefore a word rate doesn't reflect the translation effort required in any way, and it can't be directly compared to other mainstream languages with an alphabet. Your rate may feel "high" (if dealing with an agency), but you translate a lot fewer source German words in one hour.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:58
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Its a simple mistake -- did you point it out to them? | May 10, 2023 |
Holly Hart wrote:
I told them my rate was 16 cents/target word. ...
They countered with let's negotiate. So I came back with 17 cents. And they came back with 15 cents!
... How can they go lower than the rate originally proposed? Because if I had agreed to the rate in the first place, they would have sent out the contract and the contract would have been done for 16 cents.
Maybe the PM just forgot that he had previously offered you 16c per word, and his brain is in "automatic negotiation mode". It's a simple mistake to make, and if you point it out their mistake to them, they might apologize and agree with what they originally offered.
Holly Hart wrote:
I am astonished!
Holly Hart wrote:
I was surprised to find HR to be so unprofessional...
That said, if "astonished" and "unprofessional" are two words that come to your mind when describing this situation, then perhaps you and this agency are not a good fit for each other.
[Edited at 2023-05-10 09:54 GMT]
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Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:58
Serbian to English
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| It's nothing hypothetical ... | May 12, 2023 |
Holly Hart wrote:
I appreciate the opinions of William and Daryo - I guess I was surprised to find HR to be so unprofessional by going down in rates and this makes me reluctant to proceed.
I have to add that I speak from experience. I have been interpreter at meetings where one side that didn't like what's offered would simply all stand up without saying a word and walk away. I did learn few things watching at very close range how it works.
I remember one other negotiation - of my own contract, face to face - that lasted about 2 hours, of which anything was said for only about 10-15 minutes.
"Good manners" from everyday life and negotiating tactics are not exactly the same thing. As you have been reminded by this agency.
[Edited at 2023-05-12 02:42 GMT]
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