| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Rates when using CAT tools Thread poster: Rachel E
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Rachel E
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:45
Hi Everyone,
Just wondering if anyone could explain to me how to work out how much to charge when using Trados. I'm only just starting out and I've decided what my rate will be per source language word but then I'm completely confused when it comes to Trados. One company wants to know how much I will charge for a 100% match and then a 90% match and so on. I have no idea how to work this out and don't know what is the norm so if anyone could help me out that would be great!
... See more Hi Everyone,
Just wondering if anyone could explain to me how to work out how much to charge when using Trados. I'm only just starting out and I've decided what my rate will be per source language word but then I'm completely confused when it comes to Trados. One company wants to know how much I will charge for a 100% match and then a 90% match and so on. I have no idea how to work this out and don't know what is the norm so if anyone could help me out that would be great!
Many thanks,
Rachel ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vladimír Hoffman 
Slovakia
Local time: 14:45
Member (2009)
English to Slovak
+ ...
I use following breakdown (if I manage to persuade a client about it:-)) ):
Match Rate
repetitions 10%
100% matches 20%
95%-99% matches 35%
85%-94% matches 40%
75%-84% matches 50%
under 75% matches 100%
Some advice:
1. Some colleagues will try to persuade you that they have never ever provided any Trados allowance and such allowance is unacceptable, immoral and harmful to an industry - Do not li... See more I use following breakdown (if I manage to persuade a client about it:-)) ):
Match Rate
repetitions 10%
100% matches 20%
95%-99% matches 35%
85%-94% matches 40%
75%-84% matches 50%
under 75% matches 100%
Some advice:
1. Some colleagues will try to persuade you that they have never ever provided any Trados allowance and such allowance is unacceptable, immoral and harmful to an industry - Do not listen to them. Trados allowances, we can like or dislike it, are common parts of the industry for years and unless you are in exceptional position you can't afford to ignore requirements for them.
2. Some clients will try to misuse you and sent to you TMs made by unskilled translators (or even by Google Translator) or full of tags, or texts with 5% of non-translated segments and rest in various matching stages - Do not accept such jobs. If you are taking TM from a source unknow to you, always review if briefly (for example through Maintenance function, but maybe there are also other functionalities). If you are suspicious that a client try to get you into proofreading of a text from Google Translator or other MT - stop a cooperation immediately, they want make a slave of you.
You should insist that you will not accept job with less than, say, 30% of new text. You should insists that if a text contains too may tags, a surgarge for graphic work should be paid. Some clients (and agencies) would like to replace graphic work with work of a translators (especially common in the case of large automotive manuals and manuals for mobile phones and small apliances), so let them pay for it.
3. Trados can be excellent servant. Try to master it as much as possible. Proz provides (paid) training session in Trados, you could consider taking them. Create you and keep your own dictionaries. Many translators (including me) make a mistake of relying on Concordance function as a kind of dictionary. After certain volume of translations in TM, usefullness of such a tool decreases. Divide TMs as suitable. Create separate TMs for a client, project or field (such as Banking or Agriculture).
4. And the last advice - Enjoy your Trados as much as you can and use it constantly, even if a client do not requires so. Your dictionaries and TMs will be a big help for you (or, at least, they will show you hw much you have improved since your beginnings:-)) )
Rachel E wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Just wondering if anyone could explain to me how to work out how much to charge when using Trados. I'm only just starting out and I've decided what my rate will be per source language word but then I'm completely confused when it comes to Trados. One company wants to know how much I will charge for a 100% match and then a 90% match and so on. I have no idea how to work this out and don't know what is the norm so if anyone could help me out that would be great!
Many thanks,
Rachel ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 08:45
Spanish to English
+ ...
| There is no standard... | Sep 24, 2012 |
...some people like to be abused and treated like cattle and others do not.
I prefer to set a total price based on the individual parameters of each project. Perhaps the final cost ends up being the same, but I would rather be treated as a professional translator than be pigeonholed into a one-size-fits-all cookie-cutter processor of words, repetitions and nebulous matches.
[Edited at 2012-09-25 00:00 GMT]
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 14:45
Danish to English
+ ...
| Entirely up to you | Sep 25, 2012 |
Remember that even with fuzzy matches you still have to type in and (usually) proofread the text, so you have to decide what you consider a reasonable charge for that.
Personally, I charge as follows:
0-94 % matches = full price per word
Repetitions and 95-100 % mathces = 25 % of the full price per word
Agencies wil most often expect you to offer fuzzy match discounts, and some will be very, VERY rigid about their own scale of fuzzy match rates and w... See more Remember that even with fuzzy matches you still have to type in and (usually) proofread the text, so you have to decide what you consider a reasonable charge for that.
Personally, I charge as follows:
0-94 % matches = full price per word
Repetitions and 95-100 % mathces = 25 % of the full price per word
Agencies wil most often expect you to offer fuzzy match discounts, and some will be very, VERY rigid about their own scale of fuzzy match rates and will outright refuse to work with you unless you agree to those rates. Again, it is entirely up to you how much YOU think your work is worth. If an outsourcer is not willing to pay your price, then consider how badly you want to work with them. Personally, I don't budge on my rates, as I believe rates in our industry are too low as it is, and I don't want to work with anyone who is not willing to respect that my work has a certain value, simply because THEY are not able to (or willing to) negotiate higher rates with their end clients, OR simply because they want to take a very significant cut of the price that is actually being paid for MY work.
[Edited at 2012-09-25 04:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 14:45
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Two percentages, yes, very confusing | Sep 25, 2012 |
Rachel E wrote:
I'm only just starting out and I've decided what my rate will be per source language word but then I'm completely confused when it comes to Trados.
A problem that I've discovered new translators have with percentage discount rate systems is that there are TWO sets of percentages. The first percentage is the fuzzy match percentage and the second percentage is the rate discount percentage.
Take another look at Vladimir's example (with some edits to make it clearer):
Words in repeating segments pay 1/10 of your normal per-word rate
Words in 100% matching segments pay 2/10 of your normal per-word rate
Words in 95%-99% matching segments pay 3.5/10 of your normal per-word rate
Words in 85%-94% matching segments pay 4/10 of your normal per-word rate
Words in 75%-84% matching segments pay 5/10 of your normal per-word rate
Words in segments with less than 75% match pay 10/10 of your normal per-word rate
In the above edit, the percentage refers to the fuzzy match value, which you'll see when you do an analysis before you start doing the job. The second percentage (here converted to a fraction) is the fraction of your normal per-word rate that you are paid for every word in such segments.
You'll understand this best if you use an Excel sheet to calculate the rates. Column A would contain the description (e.g. "95-99% matches"), column B would contain the word count of the match category (e.g. "235"), column C would contain a formula (e.g. =sum(B3*3.5/10), and column D would multiply column C's answer with your normal per word rate. Then get the total of column D to get the final price.
Samuel
| | | | | No discount if not necessary | Sep 25, 2012 |
I do not offer any discount for fuzzies and 100% matches, if not necessary. The only exception is the case when client gives me their full TM (proper one, not made by Google Translate). The reason is simple - I have invested my money into CAT tool to increase my profit and improve quality/consistency of my work. I did not invest my money to decrease my profit, to increase profit of agencies and to make the PM work instead of them.
Of course, no experienced client will be willing to... See more I do not offer any discount for fuzzies and 100% matches, if not necessary. The only exception is the case when client gives me their full TM (proper one, not made by Google Translate). The reason is simple - I have invested my money into CAT tool to increase my profit and improve quality/consistency of my work. I did not invest my money to decrease my profit, to increase profit of agencies and to make the PM work instead of them.
Of course, no experienced client will be willing to pay full price for translation that includes 90% of some kind of repetitions. But if they want to cut the costs, it must be *them* who does all the "dirty PM work" (like glossary and TM management, segment analysis etc.). So whenever client wants to cut the price by setting discount on fuzzies and 100% matches, I insist that they must give me their TM and/or pre-fill all the matches, so I can really work with them as with matches (either full or partial). Good clients take this as standard procedure.
As for the price breakdown, it differs from client to client. But golden rule is to charge 100% (or 10/10 ) for everything below 75% match. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 05:45
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Good grief. Don't overdo it in terms of "percentages". | Sep 25, 2012 |
A few notes and statistics:
Of all my numerous clients in 11 countries around the planet, only one (1 !!!) has the privilege of discounts. Why? They provided me with copies of two fine CAT-tools at no charge, and they send their projects beautifully prepared with all my former established translations already inserted. Did I say "My"? I don't accept TMs from third parties. However, I don't have to lift a finger and the break-down on rates for this company go as follows:
... See more A few notes and statistics:
Of all my numerous clients in 11 countries around the planet, only one (1 !!!) has the privilege of discounts. Why? They provided me with copies of two fine CAT-tools at no charge, and they send their projects beautifully prepared with all my former established translations already inserted. Did I say "My"? I don't accept TMs from third parties. However, I don't have to lift a finger and the break-down on rates for this company go as follows:
100% matches (based on my own TM and nothing else): My proofreading rate (= 35% of my translating rate)
Fuzzy something (99%-65% similar): My editing rate (= 65% of my translating rate)
The rest (64-0%): Paid in full
Those discounts refer only to long-term, repetitive and ongoing large projects such as huge websites. All other projects are paid in full and without any hysterical math involved.
I have more large agency clients that require CAT-tools. They don't receive discounts, though. That's how I set up the contracts.
Sounds arrogant?
Whenever translators invest in expensive software such as InDesign, QuarkXPress, Photoshop or whatever, they charge extra. Whenever translators invest in equally expensive CAT-tools, they feel compelled to charge less. Someone please explain this kind of logic to me. Or lack thereof... ▲ Collapse
| | | | BeaDeer (X)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Beautiful.
Methinks this answer deserves to be printed out and framed.
Nicole Schnell wrote:
A few notes and statistics:
Of all my numerous clients in 11 countries around the planet, only one (1 !!!) has the privilege of discounts. Why? They provided me with copies of two fine CAT-tools at no charge, and they send their projects beautifully prepared with all my former established translations already inserted. Did I say "My"? I don't accept TMs from third parties. However, I don't have to lift a finger and the break-down on rates for this company go as follows:
100% matches (based on my own TM and nothing else): My proofreading rate (= 35% of my translating rate)
Fuzzy something (99%-65% similar): My editing rate (= 65% of my translating rate)
The rest (64-0%): Paid in full
Those discounts refer only to long-term, repetitive and ongoing large projects such as huge websites. All other projects are paid in full and without any hysterical math involved.
I have more large agency clients that require CAT-tools. They don't receive discounts, though. That's how I set up the contracts.
Sounds arrogant?
Whenever translators invest in expensive software such as InDesign, QuarkXPress, Photoshop or whatever, they charge extra. Whenever translators invest in equally expensive CAT-tools, they feel compelled to charge less. Someone please explain this kind of logic to me. Or lack thereof...
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:45
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Depends on two principal criteria, IMO | Sep 25, 2012 |
1) You've either bought outright or you are paying a fee for that software (don't know which is true for Trados), AND you probably paid for training. There's also the intangible of the time you've spent becoming an expert user and building up terminology bases, giving added value to your translations. Don't forget that in your calculations!
2) 'Time is money'. You need to be able to save time if you're going to award discounts. Nothing else makes any sense. If you can translate a 5... See more 1) You've either bought outright or you are paying a fee for that software (don't know which is true for Trados), AND you probably paid for training. There's also the intangible of the time you've spent becoming an expert user and building up terminology bases, giving added value to your translations. Don't forget that in your calculations!
2) 'Time is money'. You need to be able to save time if you're going to award discounts. Nothing else makes any sense. If you can translate a 500-word text in one hour using Trados, when it would have taken 90 minutes non-Trados, OK, split the difference with the client. Do NOT let him take 100%, though. You're in business to make a profit, not to make your client's business more profitable!
That second criterion means that you have to think hard about what you're offering. Take repetitions within a text or 100% matches with a TM you created (or one you trust) as an example. If it's an instruction manual or technical text, it may well be that you'll simply press 'accept' when presented with your previous translation. However, in a marketing text that may actually be a bad idea. Unless it's a slogan, you may well want to avoid using identical words (even if they used them in the source). You need to keep control of your output, and if that means you will edit the text then it doesn't make any sense to let them have it (nearly) free.
Again, how much saving is there when the source segment is only 75% the same as the previous one? You may find that it only needs light editing, but my experience is that often the sentence needs to be totally restructured. Whether I delete the proposed translation and start again, or edit it heavily, I'm spending just as much time as I would have done had the tool not mentioned it. I wouldn't give any discount for that, let alone the massive 50% that Vladimir offers, but then maybe it's more appropriate in his areas. Actually, I firmly believe that over-dependence on fuzzy matches can harm the translation, at least in my specialist areas. It can too easily stifle the thought processes and lead you to take the 'easy route' in reworking a flawed sentence.
The bottom line is clear from the answers you've received, Rachel. You can offer big discounts for everything, or you can offer nothing, and still stay in business (depending on about three million other factors, of course!). It's just that the business, and its clients, will be rather different. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 05:45
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | I agree, Sheila. Some adjustments, though. | Sep 25, 2012 |
For all readers who might have a distorted perception of marketing or advertising (which are two worlds anyway), that is.
I write advertisements in B-to-B, chiefly steel, safety, oil, mining, heavy machinery, aeronautics, medium to high voltage devices, power plants, paper and printing. Also shoes, shampoo and lipstick. In general, I simply like selling stuff that costs several millions better than selling stuff that costs several dollars. Whenever I write print ads or websites, my... See more For all readers who might have a distorted perception of marketing or advertising (which are two worlds anyway), that is.
I write advertisements in B-to-B, chiefly steel, safety, oil, mining, heavy machinery, aeronautics, medium to high voltage devices, power plants, paper and printing. Also shoes, shampoo and lipstick. In general, I simply like selling stuff that costs several millions better than selling stuff that costs several dollars. Whenever I write print ads or websites, my texts are crawling with chemical formulas, exotic measurements and bizarre symbols. CAT-tools slow me down because I have to wrap each and every primitive 3-letter chemical formula around a minimum of two tags.
I would just love to clarify that "marketing texts" don't consist of fancy phrases and merry entertainment solely.
Cheers,
Nicole ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I agree with Nicole! | Sep 25, 2012 |
My considerations on the issue are similar to Nicole's, and I can confirm that it works for me and my customers.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:45
Portuguese to English
+ ...
A 60% discount on 100% matches and repetitions when using a new TM. No discounts when using a TM supplied by the client.
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 05:45
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Uhm - simple what? | Sep 25, 2012 |
Lisa Simpson, MCIL wrote:
A 60% discount on 100% matches and repetitions when using a new TM. No discounts when using a TM supplied by the client.
If you start a new TM, there is no such thing as matches. There are only repetitions. Also, do you really work with existing TMs? Yikes.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:45
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| I've always avoided formulae | Sep 25, 2012 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
For all readers who might have a distorted perception of marketing or advertising (which are two worlds anyway), that is.
I write advertisements in B-to-B, chiefly steel, safety, oil, mining, heavy machinery, aeronautics, medium to high voltage devices, power plants, paper and printing. Also shoes, shampoo and lipstick. In general, I simply like selling stuff that costs several millions better than selling stuff that costs several dollars. Whenever I write print ads or websites, my texts are crawling with chemical formulas, exotic measurements and bizarre symbols. CAT-tools slow me down because I have to wrap each and every primitive 3-letter chemical formula around a minimum of two tags.
Ever since I agreed to type my first husband's thesis on 'pre-stressed concrete blocks' back in the '70s on a portable and very manual typewriter. Boy, did I live to regret that!
I would just love to clarify that "marketing texts" don't consist of fancy phrases and merry entertainment solely.
That's certainly true. I don't really get into advertising areas much, but my marketing texts can be about any and every thing, so the terminology varies a lot. Certainly not all 'merry entertainment', that's for sure!
| | | | | Professional translators use the same rates, exactly the same, or even | Sep 25, 2012 |
slightly higher, when they use CAT tools. I believe, you should use exactly the same rates, CAT, tools or not. They do not really make that much difference, in the long run, and even if they save some people time to a certain extent -- they are just for the translators to benefit from them, not to make their rates lower. I am not really sure what they mean by "a match" here -- words acquire particular meanings only in a context. Do designers lower their rates because they just bought a surpris... See more slightly higher, when they use CAT tools. I believe, you should use exactly the same rates, CAT, tools or not. They do not really make that much difference, in the long run, and even if they save some people time to a certain extent -- they are just for the translators to benefit from them, not to make their rates lower. I am not really sure what they mean by "a match" here -- words acquire particular meanings only in a context. Do designers lower their rates because they just bought a surprisingly good computer, which will make their life easier? ▲ Collapse
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