| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Can an agency impose a penalty on the translator for a translation that was proofed by someone else? Thread poster: Willemina Hagenauw
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 16:41
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Extremely long and cumbersome process. | Jul 10, 2022 |
Kay Denney wrote:
Also, you very much did have the last word on the translation before handing it into the agency, since you approved or rejected the changes made by the other linguist. Did the other linguist introduce any mistakes?
So, I have to translate. Then proofread a version proofread by a third party. How much am I paid for this multi-layered process? Should be 3X my regular rate.
| | | | | I did have the last word... | Jul 10, 2022 |
but I only needed to check the changes made by the proofreader. Anything not changed by the proofreader I did not check as I assumed that was fine. As said, this was a very lengthy document which I translated. I got paid for the translation but not for the last check after it came back from the proofreader.
| | | | | One step at a time | Jul 10, 2022 |
First, establish whether the work is flawed.
Second, apportion blame between translator and proofreader. I would say both are equally at fault for any linguistic errors. With terminology, it depends on the proofreader’s brief.
| | | | | It should be easy to recheck your own translations | Jul 10, 2022 |
With my previous employer, the PM would send my translations back to me whenever the customer requested that they be proofread by someone else. They were my work, so I had a system of knowledge for each one where I could go back to every decision I'd made and instantly notice any changes. So, I'd preserve the okay changes and undo those which had made things worse. A really easy task, almost no effort required. Maybe this wouldn't be so for a clip-thinking translator (they definitely are a thing... See more With my previous employer, the PM would send my translations back to me whenever the customer requested that they be proofread by someone else. They were my work, so I had a system of knowledge for each one where I could go back to every decision I'd made and instantly notice any changes. So, I'd preserve the okay changes and undo those which had made things worse. A really easy task, almost no effort required. Maybe this wouldn't be so for a clip-thinking translator (they definitely are a thing), but I'm too old to be one. Even if your contract with the agency has provisions for penalties (don't think my contracts have any), it must also specify a process by which they are to be enforced, the agency can't just apply penalties arbitrarily. The happy customer thing does matter in the services market, but it's not a valid measure of work quality. Unhappy customers don't come back, simple as ▲ Collapse
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 10:41
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| I couldn't get it | Jul 11, 2022 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The reviewer does, in some sense, declare that the text that he did not change is error-free, but that does not remove the translator's responsibility for it.
Why is that?
I thought the reviewer is paid to correct translation errors, among other things, and the translator should not be blamed for the failure of the reviewer to spot and correct translation errors.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 16:41
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
jyuan_us wrote:
I thought the reviewer is paid to correct translation errors, among other things, and the translator should not be blamed for the failure of the reviewer to spot and correct translation errors.
This only half true. Yes, the reviewer should bear responsibility for not finding certain translation errors, but a translator should also bear responsibility for making them. Whether a document is long or short, (serious) translation errors are never acceptable, even if you know your translation will be reviewed afterwards. So I agree that it's a shared responsibility.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 10:41
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Lieven Malaise wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
I thought the reviewer is paid to correct translation errors, among other things, and the translator should not be blamed for the failure of the reviewer to spot and correct translation errors. This only half true. Yes, the reviewer should bear responsibility for not finding certain translation errors, but a translator should also bear responsibility for making them. Whether a document is long or short, (serious) translation errors are never acceptable, even if you know your translation will be reviewed afterwards. So I agree that it's a shared responsibility.
What is the point of hiring a reviewer?
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 16:41
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Finding mistakes the translator shouldn't make. | Jul 11, 2022 |
jyuan_us wrote:
What is the point of hiring a reviewer?
Finding the mistakes the translator shouldn't make. But that doesn't mean the translator isn't responsible. Imagine what a beautiful world it would be if the translator could just happily make blunt mistakes (meaning mostly putting speed over quality) and put all the blame on the reviewer if he or she messes up too.
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William Yang
China
Local time: 22:41
Member (2021)
English to Chinese
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| The reviewer should know better | Jul 11, 2022 |
My understanding is that reviewer should know better but a good translator can provide 100% percent accurate translation. When there are problems, if you have a reviewer, the reviewer should shoulder the responsibility to perfect the translation.
Lieven Malaise wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
What is the point of hiring a reviewer? Finding the mistakes the translator shouldn't make. But that doesn't mean the translator isn't responsible. Imagine what a beautiful world it would be if the translator could just happily make blunt mistakes (meaning mostly putting speed over quality) and put all the blame on the reviewer if he or she messes up too.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 16:41
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Lieven Malaise wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
What is the point of hiring a reviewer? Finding the mistakes the translator shouldn't make. But that doesn't mean the translator isn't responsible. Imagine what a beautiful world it would be if the translator could just happily make blunt mistakes (meaning mostly putting speed over quality) and put all the blame on the reviewer if he or she messes up too.
These random reviewers from questionable sources working at $0.01 per word routinely introduce new mistakes. So, it could go on forever then by hiring the third reviewer up to the 100th. The system is faulty to begin with.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 16:41
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| The system is not faulty, but there are an awful lot of incompetent translators/editors and agencies | Jul 11, 2022 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
These random reviewers from questionable sources working at $0.01 per word routinely introduce new mistakes. So, it could go on forever then by hiring the third reviewer up to the 100th. The system is faulty to begin with.
If you work with competent agencies you just are not confronted with that kind of situation: competent agencies don't work with underpaid people who are incompetent. They work with tested and approved translators and editors who keep on proving they are valuable. People who 'routinely introduce new mistakes' are the opposite and don't stand a chance to keep on working for decent agencies.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 10:41
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| This is just beyond me | Jul 11, 2022 |
Lieven Malaise wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
What is the point of hiring a reviewer? Finding the mistakes the translator shouldn't make. But that doesn't mean the translator isn't responsible. Imagine what a beautiful world it would be if the translator could just happily make blunt mistakes (meaning mostly putting speed over quality) and put all the blame on the reviewer if he or she messes up too.
Reviewers should not agree to work on translations that have a lot of major mistakes in the first place. Or, they should request the translation agency to have the original translator rework on the copy as soon as they have found that the translation is not up to the standard.
As long as the reviewer has agreed to proceed with his review job, it should be his sole responsibility to put everything right.
[Edited at 2022-07-11 19:21 GMT]
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| Thanks for all your comments. | Jul 11, 2022 |
I do not want to "hide" behind the proofreader, but as a proofreader myself, I accept full responsibility for the file I have proofread. If I miss things, then I have not done my job properly etc. If a translation is really poor, I would flag this up while I am working on it, because it may affect the time and effort needed to get it right.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 16:41
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
jyuan_us wrote:
Reviewers should not agree to work on translations that have a lot of major mistakes in the first place. Or, they should request the translation agency to have the original translator rework on the copy as soon as they have found that the translation is not up to the standard.
Translators shouldn't make any mistakes either, but they do. You buy nothing with 'should' and editing is a well-defined and established service, not some exotic activity that is only performed in exceptional cases. Any decent translation agency works for every project of more than a few hundred words with the translation/editing combo. It's even for a large extent why they exist.
jyuan_us wrote:
As long as the reviewer has agreed tp proceed with his review job, it should be his sole responsibility to put everything right.
This would invite translators to perform hasty and inaccurate work because all the responsibility would lie with the editor. How is it not ridiculous that a crappy translator would bear zero responsibility just because a second translator has to check his/her work?
| | | | | Both to blame but… | Jul 11, 2022 |
I think the question of how the translator and editor share the blame is an interesting one. Is there an established model for this?
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