| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Can an agency impose a penalty on the translator for a translation that was proofed by someone else? Thread poster: Willemina Hagenauw
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Some time ago, I did quite a lengthy job for an agency. The job was going to be proofread by another linguist, after which I would get the file back to agree/reject the changes made by the proofreader. I would then send the clean file to agency.
After a number of weeks both the proofreader and I got the message that the end client was not happy with the work done and that they were going to penalise the agency and the agency now penalises both me and the proofreader.
I feel that as... See more Some time ago, I did quite a lengthy job for an agency. The job was going to be proofread by another linguist, after which I would get the file back to agree/reject the changes made by the proofreader. I would then send the clean file to agency.
After a number of weeks both the proofreader and I got the message that the end client was not happy with the work done and that they were going to penalise the agency and the agency now penalises both me and the proofreader.
I feel that as my translation was proofread by a proofreader, the proofreader is the ultimate responsible for the finished file (except for any changes made by the proofreader that were rejected by me incorrectly), and that it is not correct that I have to pay a penalty.
Moreover, the comments made by the end client were in some respects quite "flimsy" and subjective and the proofreader was late in returning the proofed file to me because she did not realise the volume of the document and had a lot of other things on that week. I suspect she did not apply herself fully to the task due to these constraints.
Has anyone got any experience with this kind of thing? It has never happened to me before. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 15:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Willemina Hagenauw wrote:
I feel that as my translation was proofread by a proofreader, the proofreader is the ultimate responsible for the finished file...
No. Although it is useful for a translator to know that his translation will be reviewed (either by his own reviewer or the agency's reviewer), the translator is ultimately responsible for his translation.
It is tempting to think that the last person who looked at the file should be responsible for it. The reviewer does, in some sense, declare that the text that he did not change is error-free, but that does not remove the translator's responsibility for it. (The translator is not responsible for errors that were introduced by the reviewer, however.)
The only way in which responsibility for the translation can shift from the translator to the reviewer is if this was explicitly stated beforehand (e.g. if it was agreed that the translator would create a quick-and-dirty translation which would then not be merely reviewed but extensively copy-edited by a second person who would then become the recognised author of the translation).
Whether the client is right to apply a penalty is a different matter.
[Edited at 2022-07-08 11:15 GMT]
| | | | | Unhappiness is not a legal argument | Jul 8, 2022 |
The mere fact that the end client was not happy doesn't mean a thing. The client may be completely right about the translation, completely wrong about it, or may have failed to provide a style guide or other instructions. Similarly, the agency may or may not have informed the translator and proofreader of the requirements. Thus, it's impossible to apportion the liability between the translator, the proofreader and the agency without knowing all the details, which should normally involve a review... See more The mere fact that the end client was not happy doesn't mean a thing. The client may be completely right about the translation, completely wrong about it, or may have failed to provide a style guide or other instructions. Similarly, the agency may or may not have informed the translator and proofreader of the requirements. Thus, it's impossible to apportion the liability between the translator, the proofreader and the agency without knowing all the details, which should normally involve a review of the translation by a third-party expert. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 15:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| @Willemina II | Jul 8, 2022 |
Willemina Hagenauw wrote:
The comments made by the end client were in some respects quite "flimsy" and subjective...
I believe the translator should not be penalized if the client can't convince the translator that the mistakes are in fact mistakes, or if a third party that both translator and client accepts as independent agrees with the client.
In this I agree with Anton where he writes: "...which should normally involve a review of the translation by a third-party expert."
It also sounds (from your description) that the client had not even given you the opportunity to defend your translation or for you to respond to the client's concerns. I don't think financial penalty is warranted without such a step.
The proofreader was late in returning the proofed file to me...
I agree that it would be unfair to penalize the translator for negligence on the part of the reviewer. If the actions of the reviewer (e.g. delivering late) had affected the final product negatively, then the reviewer shares responsibility for the outcome (although it would be difficult to determine what his penalty should be).
Note, however, that if you had known (when you received the work from the reviewer) that there is too little time left over to implement the reviewer's edits or suggestions correctly, you should have informed the client of this.
[Edited at 2022-07-08 11:15 GMT]
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First of all, the agency is always the ultimate responsible for the result. Then, when the agency sends the proofread version for me to accept or reject the changes made by the proofreader, I share the responsibility with the agency. If the agency sends the proofread version to the client without giving me the opportunity of accepting or rejecting the changes made, then the proofreader shares the responsibility with the agency.
If I were in your shoes, I would pay an independent li... See more First of all, the agency is always the ultimate responsible for the result. Then, when the agency sends the proofread version for me to accept or reject the changes made by the proofreader, I share the responsibility with the agency. If the agency sends the proofread version to the client without giving me the opportunity of accepting or rejecting the changes made, then the proofreader shares the responsibility with the agency.
If I were in your shoes, I would pay an independent linguist to have a good look both at my translation and at the proofread version and I would send his/her report to the agency along with comments and justifications. In the event the third linguist would find real mistakes in the translation I would present my excuses and propose a discount (so far, it has never happened to me). Otherwise, I will make them pay the full amount, with the help of a lawyer if need be. ▲ Collapse
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for your suggestions. I will think about my next step. I had agreed to give a discount, but somehow it does not feel right. My translation may not have been perfect, but any mistakes should have been picked up by the proofreader. When I proofread other linguists' work, I assume that the buck stops with me, unless they choose not to accept my changes.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| An agency cannot impose a penalty AT ALL | Jul 8, 2022 |
Unless written into your contract
It can refuse to take your delivery entirely and demand you do it right, but it cannot discount something it has accepted.
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 15:36
Italian to English
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| Two professional linguists vs one complaining client | Jul 8, 2022 |
Sounds improbable two pro linguists got the job so wrong it can't be fixed.
Sounds probable the client complained to get a discount and the agency simply passed the buck.
If you are certain the job was done properly prove your point to the agency by taking the complaints apart.
If you have doubts about the job you did, give them a discount and move on. This is also the least time-consuming solution if you don't want to work with them again.
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| One error can render an otherwise excellent translation useless for the client | Jul 8, 2022 |
Back in the mid-2000s, I translated a questionnaire concerning new Wrigley's chewing gum flavors. The company sent out samples to 200 recipients in Russia who should have filled out the questionnaire afterwards. I mistranslated one question. Wrigley filed a complaint with the British agency claiming damages ($15,000), because they had to repeat the exercise (200 additional samples to be sent out).
The agency wanted me to pay this amount. I declined to be 100% liable in this case, be... See more Back in the mid-2000s, I translated a questionnaire concerning new Wrigley's chewing gum flavors. The company sent out samples to 200 recipients in Russia who should have filled out the questionnaire afterwards. I mistranslated one question. Wrigley filed a complaint with the British agency claiming damages ($15,000), because they had to repeat the exercise (200 additional samples to be sent out).
The agency wanted me to pay this amount. I declined to be 100% liable in this case, because the agency advertised on their website the 2- or even 3-pairs-of-eyes approach.
Upon some negotiation, I agreed to pay the additional premium charged by their insurance company on their next year's insurance policy. The amount was $300.
I could refuse to pay anything. I don't think the agency could sue me successfully. However, I always own up to my mistakes.
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Willemina, this situation differs from yours. In my case, the agency obviously skipped the editing/proofreading stage.
[Edited at 2022-07-08 16:12 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Juno Bos
Zambia
Local time: 15:36
Member (2011)
German to Dutch
+ ...
| Number of weeks? | Jul 8, 2022 |
What is the time frame you agreed with the agency to come back to you about possible errors and such? Because according to me you have an agreement with the agency (not the end client). And a number of weeks seems a bit long to start complaining about possible errors.
I am asking this, because I have been in the situation where an agency came back with the same issue, though I later found out the end client never complained.
| | | | | Limitation period on complaints | Jul 8, 2022 |
Juno Bos wrote:
What is the time frame you agreed with the agency to come back to you about possible errors and such?
I don't remember, perhaps one month.
| | | | Juno Bos
Zambia
Local time: 15:36
Member (2011)
German to Dutch
+ ...
| The TS stated | Jul 8, 2022 |
Vladimir Pochinov wrote: Juno Bos wrote:
What is the time frame you agreed with the agency to come back to you about possible errors and such? I don't remember, perhaps one month.
She stated: after a number of weeks the agency came back with the issues of the end client...
According to me, that's quite a long time to still come back with complaints.
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I finished the job, including the revision of the proofreader beginning of June. We got a message a few weeks ago that the client wasn't happy and then we were sent the comments on the translation last week.
I was just so disappointed that the agency did not even query whether the comments of the client were valid (some of which were definitely not), just took their word for it and told us they were cut 60% of their fee so we were cut 50%.
| | | | finnword1
United States
Local time: 09:36
English to Finnish
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| There are proofreaders and there are "proofreaders" | Jul 9, 2022 |
Some proofreaders are intentionally finding as many things to change as possible. I used to translate directly for a major U.S. company who qualified their translators in advance. I never heard any negative feedback. Then somebody in the upper management got the brilliant idea to use outside translation companies, one for translation and a different one for proofreading. The result was a disaster, to say the least. I quit.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 15:36
French to English
I agree that either the end client or the agency might be trying to get out of paying.
You say that some of the corrections were subjective, but that means they weren't all subjective. Were any of them justified?
I have noticed that if there is a mistake in the top 2/3 of the first page, the client is very likely to notice and will then proceed to look for mistakes everywhere. They can't tell whether what they think is a mistake is subjective or objective, they only kn... See more I agree that either the end client or the agency might be trying to get out of paying.
You say that some of the corrections were subjective, but that means they weren't all subjective. Were any of them justified?
I have noticed that if there is a mistake in the top 2/3 of the first page, the client is very likely to notice and will then proceed to look for mistakes everywhere. They can't tell whether what they think is a mistake is subjective or objective, they only know what they've been taught is right or wrong.
A few weeks before providing feedback doesn't sound very long if it's a huge text, it'll take time to check it. The person whose job is to check it most likely has to fit the checking in around other duties, and may need to send various parts to others in the company (the Terms & Conditions of Sale needs to be checked by the Legal Department, the cookies page by IT, the blurb about the products by Sales etc.).
You might want to put a clause about feedback needing to be given within X time (X being determined according to document length) in your own Terms & Conditions of Sale.
Also, you very much did have the last word on the translation before handing it into the agency, since you approved or rejected the changes made by the other linguist. Did the other linguist introduce any mistakes? ▲ Collapse
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