| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Translation business in Russia: Cutthroat competition among agencies, peanuts offered to translators Thread poster: Vladimir Pochinov
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| What's the standard of living in Russia? | Jul 9, 2022 |
Expensive?
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: This is a reply to a post that has been deleted | Vladimir Pochinov 
Russian Federation
Local time: 17:22
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | I wouldn't recommend Russian graduates (actually, any graduates) to pursue a translator's career now | Jul 10, 2022 |
David GAY wrote:
the idea could be to advise Russian graduates to avoid entering the translation market and to advise translators to seek better opportunities in other industries
You're right, David. When people ask for my advice, I recommend pursuing another career (e.g. software developer) while mastering a second (or third) language.
[Edited at 2022-07-10 03:57 GMT]
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Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 17:22
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | Standard of living in Russia | Jul 10, 2022 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Expensive?
Some statistics for you, Giovanni.
Statutory minimum monthly pay (as of 1 Jul 2022): approx. $250 = 42% of the median monthly pay in Russia (see below)
Your salary may be below the above figure. The SMMP includes, in addition to salary, payments in lieu, increments, perks, incentive rewards.
Median monthly pay in Russia: approx. $595
Understandably, average monthly pay in Moscow is higher than in backwater towns.
Average monthly pay in Moscow (as of June 2022): approx. $1,095
To avoid comparing apples to oranges, we need to factor in utility bills, taxes, etc.
FYI, as a registered sole proprietor, I pay 6% on my gross income, plus about $500 payable annually to the statutory social insurance and retirement plans.
My one-bedroom apartment (for myself and my wife) in Zelenogradsk, Kaliningrad Region: about $50 per month (incl. water, electricity, gas, garbage collection).
Internet (200Mbps): $12 per month
Gas/petroleum for my car: $0.88 per liter
[Edited at 2022-07-10 04:30 GMT]
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 19:22
English to Arabic
+ ...
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
My one-bedroom apartment (for myself and my wife) in Zelenogradsk, Kaliningrad Region: about $50 per month (incl. water, electricity, gas, garbage collection).
Nice!
You're paying in rent now nearly one quarter of what I was paying back in 2014 (utilities not included).
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
When people ask for my advice, I recommend pursuing another career (e.g. software developer)
You're just leading them to yet another carnage.
"I work as a computer programmer and I am beginning to curse my bad luck and stupidity for having chosen this particular career.
Programming is badly paid, in decline, and takes up all your free time just to stay ahead of the game - let alone to also find a new job.
The problem is that programming is still a cost centre. And as such, we are being continuously squeezed. It's harder and harder to get a pay rise and more of our work is being centralized and automated, so that at some point soon I suspect that pay may even start to fall.
The real issue with programming jobs, though, is the working hours. It's not just the hours in the job - although these can be long - it's the hours that need to be spent programming outside of your working day."
https://www.efinancialcareers.co.uk/news/finance/developer-jobs-terrible-career
"I would say it’s getting saturated, if it’s not already. With the horrific imbalance between the working class and the employer class, costs of living going up, etc., workers seem to be chasing the money more and more, and software developer jobs are being advertised as being “in demand.” And it’s an easy assumption to make - computers and electronic devices are everywhere these days. So if you’re looking for a job that can keep up with inflation in the cost of living, that’s a very attractive thing to hear.
Unfortunately, then everyone tries to find their own route to becoming a software developer, whether it’s doing a bootcamp, going back for a second bachelor’s degree (like I did), or even the kids going to college for the first time choosing computer science as opposed to various other fields. And while you may have plenty of people who are perfectly capable of doing the job once they complete these various options for education or training, there’s still a finite number of jobs actually available, and then everyone’s competing for the same limited number of jobs, edging each other out, and you still have a bunch of these newly trained “software developers” who are just as unemployed as they were before. Because sure, you may have plenty of candidates who meet the qualifications listed in the job posting, but if you’re always up against someone who has “more,” (and that “more” varies depending on the specific employer and what they’re looking for), then you’re going to lose out over and over again, and now that’s what we’re seeing a lot of in this field."
"Yes, but software companies are trying to make it seem like there’s a shortage. Everyone wants the developers they hire to be in the top 5–10% of best, smartest, most experienced, most talented, most creative, and most productive developers in existence. But, of course, 90–95% of developers cannot, by definition, be in this rarified group."
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-software-development-market-oversaturated
"Programming is not in high demand.
What in high demand is experienced programmers who are willing to work long hours for funny money. If you one of them you will not find job because of companies recruitment policies (like “we hire the best ones”, and the best ones defines by doing some buggy programming test).
All other combinations (unexperienced programmers who can accept low salary & experienced programmers who want reasonable salary) are not in demand at all."
"Because companies want to hire experienced experts who already know how to do everything for the price of unskilled fast food workers. That really happens, companies put up job listings for developers and, at a full-time job of 40 hours per week, amounts to lower pay than fast food places who are now starting to pay $15/week."
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-programming-so-high-in-demand-but-so-hard-to-get-a-programming-job
Reddit:
"there is no doubt that it is getting crazy competitive to get a junior or entry level job"
"the problem with the computer fields nowadays, since people are seeing $$$ signs, is that a lot of people without the natural talent are going into it because they see it as an easy way to get a high paying job, they find out later that it is not so easy"
Talk circulating about software engineering/developing expected to constantly prosper, is just a huge marketing scheme funded by organizations that charge big bucks to educate and train those engineers/developers.
At this very moment we are discussing the topic, software engineers/developers are being exploited in the exact same manner like translators are, across all outsourcing/career platforms.
| | | | | What I was trying to understand... | Jul 10, 2022 |
Vladimir Pochinov wrote: Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Expensive? Some statistics for you, Giovanni. Statutory minimum monthly pay (as of 1 Jul 2022): approx. $250 = 42% of the median monthly pay in Russia (see below) Your salary may be below the above figure. The SMMP includes, in addition to salary, payments in lieu, increments, perks, incentive rewards. Median monthly pay in Russia: approx. $595 Understandably, average monthly pay in Moscow is higher than in backwater towns. Average monthly pay in Moscow (as of June 2022): approx. $1,095 To avoid comparing apples to oranges, we need to factor in utility bills, taxes, etc. FYI, as a registered sole proprietor, I pay 6% on my gross income, plus about $500 payable annually to the statutory social insurance and retirement plans. My one-bedroom apartment (for myself and my wife) in Zelenogradsk, Kaliningrad Region: about $50 per month (incl. water, electricity, gas, garbage collection). Internet (200Mbps): $12 per month Gas/petroleum for my car: $0.88 per liter [Edited at 2022-07-10 04:30 GMT]
Can you have a decent standard of living in Russia if you work full time as a translator at those Russian rates?
| | | | Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 17:22
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | @Giovanni Guarnieri - Cost of living in Russia | Jul 10, 2022 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Can you have a decent standard of living in Russia if you work full time as a translator at those Russian rates?
Just do the math:
Example 1.
Let’s assume such translators have sufficient inflows of translation requests to keep them busy 20 days per month, doing 3,000 words daily. Since they are willing to work for peanuts, they may be in high demand.
3,000 x 20 = 60,000 words @ $0.01 = $600, which is a median monthly pay in Russia. They’ll surely have a hard time living in Moscow, especially if they need to rent an apartment.
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Example 2.
25 working days @ 3,000 words per day @ $0.015 = $1,125 per month
[Edited at 2022-07-10 12:34 GMT]
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Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 17:22
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | It's not "those Russian rates" ... Just visit Fiver.com | Jul 10, 2022 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Can you have a decent standard of living in Russia if you work full time as a translator at those Russian rates?
-----------------
An excerpt from a Fiverr profile of an English-to-Spanish translator from Colombia:
I will translate any type of text from English to Spanish (books, articles, Legal letters, Legal articles, product descriptions, Amazon and ebay listings, blog posts, web pages, business plans, all documents).
Perfect grammar, spelling and punctuation rules. Unlimited revisions. 100% satisfaction guaranteed.
5,000 words -> Turnaround time: one (1) day -> Total price (unlimited revisions included): $55
All 120 reviews are "5 star". 4 orders in queue (as of 10 Jul 2022).
[Edited at 2022-07-10 12:56 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 11:22
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Will this discussion lead to any raises in the rates in Russia？ | Jul 10, 2022 |
If not, what are you guys trying to get at?
| | | | Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 17:22
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | @jyuan_us -- Will your discussions lead to any raises in any rates (in Russia, USA, or China?) | Jul 10, 2022 |
Chinese translation companies
jyuan_us wrote: Michael Newton wrote:
Work for these companies only if you wish to starve. They generally offer $0.01-$0.02/English word even for the most complex of medical and technical texts. Their excuse is "limited budget". If one translates 300 words an hour, they would make $3-6 per hour at the rate of $0.01-$0.02/English word. I don't think any native English speaker would work on those rates. A client will be better of using Google Translate by themselves than contracting their work to someone willing to work on those rates.
[Edited at 2022-07-10 13:23 GMT]
| | | | Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 17:22
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | Make every effort to be in the top 5-10% of professionals in your industry | Jul 10, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote: Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
When people ask for my advice, I recommend pursuing another career (e.g. software developer) You're just leading them to yet another carnage... Programming is badly paid, in decline, and takes up all your free time just to stay ahead of the game - let alone to also find a new job.
An excerpt from The 15 Most In-Demand Jobs in 2021
UX designer
Average annual salary: $98,000 (£71,250)
A UX designer is predominantly focused on designing the process that facilitates a good user experience at a site. The first research the goals and motives of a user and then put their ideas into motion by designing the site's architecture and wireframes. Once the product has been created, they are responsible for the testing and constant maintenance of the design.
Data science specialist
Average annual salary: $105,000 (£76,340)
Since the world revolves around analysing data and statistics, the role of a data science specialist has also been on the rise. In a nutshell, a data scientist will help an organisation solve problems by analysing specific data. They set up testing methods to review infrastructures, test machine learning to analyse user results and offer various solutions.
AI specialist
Average annual salary: $144,000 (£104,710)
Artificial intelligence has been on the rise for some time and is becoming even more popular in 2021. AI specialists work in cognitive stimulation and programme computers to perform tasks as a human would. It’s a niche market that requires trained and experienced professionals to create this human-like functionality. To work in this field, you will need to have experience in programming and a degree in data science, mathematics or computer science to be considered for an entry-level role.
... software companies are trying to make it seem like there’s a shortage. Everyone wants the developers they hire to be in the top 5–10% of best, smartest, most experienced, most talented, most creative, and most productive developers in existence. But, of course, 90–95% of developers cannot, by definition, be in this rarified group.
In 2008-2013, I worked as an on-house legal translator with a major international law firm's Moscow office. I went through a four-stage recruitment process, including a two-hour written translation test (an excerpt from a shareholders' agreement to be translated from English to Russian, and an excerpt from a distribution agreement to be translated from Russian to English). But the job was worth the effort. My monthly pay was ten times as high as that of a translator in most translation agencies and/or business enterprises. Obviously, I joined the ranks of the 5-10% of the highest-paid translators in Moscow.
There is no doubt that it is getting crazy competitive to get a junior or entry level job.
"the problem with the computer fields nowadays, since people are seeing $$$ signs, is that a lot of people without the natural talent are going into it because they see it as an easy way to get a high paying job, they find out later that it is not so easy"
Isn't it the same with generalist translators who claim they can translate just anything? I doubt my former boss would trust any of them to translate all the legal paperwork (lots of 40- to 70-page documents) associated with an M&A deal worth $5 billion.
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Sadek_A
Local time: 19:22
English to Arabic
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Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Make every effort to be in the top 5-10% of professionals in your industry
Obviously, I joined the ranks of the 5-10% of the highest-paid translators in Moscow.
- No one has a possible way of knowing whether they're in that top %. Just need to do well.
- You mixed my own statements with part of one of the quotes.
My statement: "You're just leading them to yet another carnage"
Part of one of the quotes: "Programming is badly paid, in decline, and takes up all your free time just to stay ahead of the game - let alone to also find a new job."
- The job titles, descriptions and salaries you quoted are theoretical. Those exact people are having a hard time now. Check Fiverr or similar platforms for a very-telling real-world "professionals" stampede.
- There is no such a thing as "generalist vs. specialist translator".
Best translators in the history of time across the whole globe never ever specialized.
There is, however, a "talented & resourceful vs. couch-potato wannabe translator". No one should ever trust the latter, no matter what the project is.
| | | | Roman Karabaev
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:22
English to Russian
+ ...
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Can you have a decent standard of living in Russia if you work full time as a translator at those Russian rates?
The screenshot herein shows the current price of a small (387 sq. feet, i.e. 36 sq. m) new-built one-bedroom apartment in my city. As you can see, the property still requires a lot of investment. That's basically bare concrete.
3,276,000 RUB, i.e. ~USD 51,000 using the current exchange rate from Google. Finishing works and furniture can easily cost you another USD 10,000-15,000.
And then (only then) you'll be able to "enjoy" those USD50.00 utility bills. You have to buy an apartment first.
And of course you have to buy a car first to "enjoy" seemingly cheap gas. That would be another USD 50,000 for a modest version of Skoda Octavia, for example.
It does not make sense to mention any other expenses.
With USD600-800 a month you can only afford some cheap rented apartment and some cheap food. Any minor emergency like laptop failure - and you're in debts for months.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:22
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Rational argument gets you nowhere | Jul 10, 2022 |
Vladimir, this is pointless. I took the same approach once before, using government data and other survey data to show that, yes, people working in software or development in the US do have high median incomes. One presumes that the same applies in other first-world countries.
Instead of a reasoned response, you will just get told that the data is wrong or made-up (right, and their anecdotes and assertions are based on what, exactly?). When all else fails, they will accuse you of being nasty for using logic and data, which is basically an ad hominem attack.
You are quite right, by the way: if you want the big bucks, you need to be in the top quartile, preferably the top decile in your profession. If you're in the bottom decile or quartile, well... If you're in software and you're not very good, you're probably going to make more than a not-very-good waiter or a not-very-good translator, but you'll still struggle to be comfortable. There are indeed people in software development who probably shouldn't be, but that happens in any rapidly growing industry.
The other question I always find myself wanting to ask is what these people think is going on in other professions.
Do they think that there is a safe place where there is no stress, no competition, and where every day is a pleasant 9 to 5? Do they really think that there are meaningful professions where the top-ranked people don't have to work hard? Medicine? Finance? Law? Entrepreneurs? Really? They think people just walk out of high school into one of these professions and magically, 20 years later, they're successful and stable? That's not the way it works. It's grind and poor work-life balance for at least a couple of decades.
There are no free lunches.
Sinecures are vanishingly rare.
We all need to work hard to survive.
Most people outside the G7 have it much harder than us.
Regards,
Dan
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