| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Translation business in Russia: Cutthroat competition among agencies, peanuts offered to translators Thread poster: Vladimir Pochinov
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Vladimir Pochinov 
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:51
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | Me complaining ... I don't think so | Jul 11, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote: Vladimir Pochinov wrote: Grind and poor work-life balance for most college graduates for at least a decade Unless you are fortunate to be born into a family of a Russian oligarch or top-level official --  You were complaining why again, Vladimir? If you accept the forced "grind and poor" for "decades", what did you start the thread for then?
Sadek, you may check out my postings since the time I joined ProZ.com (it was in Dec 1999). It's extremely unlikely you'll be able to pinpoint a single complaint on my part.
The key reason is that my compensation was always well above any median or average monthly pay in Russia since my first employment. In that period (1988-1992), the average monthly pay for an engineer was about RUB 150, while they paid me RUB 300-350 on a piece-work pay basis (i.e. my pay depended on the number of pages translated per month for internal translation requesters). In my last employment with the Moscow office of a major international law firm (2008-2013), they paid me $3,000-3,500 (converted into RUB at the going exchange rates). Why should I complain?
FYI, I quit that job as soon as I paid back my mortgage, because I value freedom much more than money. -
By the way, Moscow-based translation agencies charged very low rates for translation at the time. Yet, many clients chose to have their material translated by the law firm's in-house translators (there were three of us in the office), paying $160 per man-hour. I don't think they were unaware of cheaper options, but they were not willing to take any translation-related risk in a multi-million or multi-billion litigation proceeding or M&A deal.
| | | | Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:51
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | Can-translate-anything between several languages, both directions - You must know these 'colleagues' | Jul 11, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote: Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Do you know any translator who can produce adequate translations in all of the following subject fields: molecular biology, nuclear physics, accounting standards (GAAP, IFRS), criminal law, SEO, artificial intelligence and machine learning, microelectronics, cardiology, aircraft avionics, robotics, you name it. By 'adequate' I mean translations that would not make a subject matter expert (SME) flip out while reading. The list is endless, so I will give a couple of quick names: - Abu Yūsuf Yaʻqūb ibn ʼIsḥāq aṣ-Ṣabbāḥ al-Kindī: translated Greek scientific (across all sciences) and philosophical texts (across different humanities). - Gerard of Cremona: translated Arabic scientific and philosophical texts.
Seriously? Don't you know that the global amount of information is doubled each year? You need to work quite hard to keep up with the latest developments in a single profession. Leonardo Da Vinci or Gerard of Cremona would have much more information to process to be as versatile as they were.
I, for one, translated in Biology, Physics, Accounting, Law, Lit., Marketing, and several others. They were all paid, subject-matter reviewed, and more than adequate
That makes two of us - My previous background, combined with my passion for learning new things, resulted in a rather extensive list of subject fields I feel comfortable with.
That said,... an employer...say, a publishing company...hires you as a translator. They give you different texts to translate, you constantly refuse saying they're not your specialty. That's pretty much GAME OVER for you in that job!
That publishing company will NOT hire a couple of thousand translators, each of whom specialized in a (sub)domain, just for the company to have its different translations done from one month to the other. It's just absurd.
I am with you on this point. This is exactly why I opted for a freelance career and quit my last cushy job. -) Working in corporate settings, I had to translate everything from handwritten medical reports to poorly scanned (OCR was not an option) arm-long tables with lots of figures to be reproduced in either Word or Excel. - As a freelancer, I can choose to work on what I like and what I know best.
[Edited at 2022-07-11 11:21 GMT]
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 21:51
English to Arabic
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Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Me complaining ... I don't think so
It's extremely unlikely you'll be able to pinpoint a single complaint on my part.
Why should I complain?
This very thread is indicative of a complaint, and deservedly so if I'm to valuate it. What doesn't line up is adopting viewpoints inherently opposing, not just the complaint itself, but even the right to lodging that complaint to begin with.
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
The key reason is that my compensation was always well above any median or average monthly pay in Russia since my first employment. In that period (1988-1992), the average monthly pay for an engineer was about RUB 150, while they paid me RUB 300-350 on a piece-work pay basis (i.e. my pay depended on the number of pages translated per month for internal translation requesters). In my last employment with the Moscow office of a major international law firm (2008-2013), they paid me $3,000-3,500 (converted into RUB at the going exchange rates).
Glad for you, Vladimir.
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Yet, many clients chose to have their material translated by the law firm's in-house translators (there were three of us in the office), paying $160 per man-hour. I don't think they were unaware of cheaper options, but they were not willing to take any translation-related risk in a multi-million or multi-billion litigation proceeding or M&A deal.
They did the right thing.
Vladimir Pochinov wrote: FYI, I quit that job as soon as I paid back my mortgage, because I value freedom much more than money. -
I figured that out.
And, many of the regulars here on the forum are retired from the profession altogether; still, they find it appropriate to force ahead several malpractices and call them facts of life! Not cool!
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 21:51
English to Arabic
+ ...
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Seriously? Don't you know that the global amount of information is doubled each year? You need to work quite hard to keep up with the latest developments in a single profession. Leonardo Da Vinci or Gerard of Cremona would have much more information to process to be as versatile as they were.
Those people had the solid foundation (i.e. talent and resourcefulness) required to get the job done, and they would do just fine in Translation today like they did in old times.
Vladimir Pochinov wrote: Working in corporate settings, I had to translate everything from handwritten medical reports to poorly scanned (OCR was not an option) arm-long tables with lots of figures to be reproduced in either Word or Excel. - As a freelancer, I can choose to work on what I like and what I know best. [Edited at 2022-07-11 11:21 GMT]
Those you escaped are mandatorily on the table in Freelancing as well. And, the rule remains the same: constantly refuse, the freelance connection gets immediately terminated.
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Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:51
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | I do decline jobs from regular clients from time to time | Jul 11, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote: Vladimir Pochinov wrote: Working in corporate settings, I had to translate everything from handwritten medical reports to poorly scanned (OCR was not an option) arm-long tables with lots of figures to be reproduced in either Word or Excel. - As a freelancer, I can choose to work on what I like and what I know best. Those you escaped are mandatorily on the table in Freelancing as well. And, the rule remains the same: constantly refuse, the freelance connection gets immediately terminated.
My last two cents on this topic... I do need to translate occasionally to make ends meet -:)
And I don't see any problem with declining a job for various reasons: 1) I am busy working on another project; or 2) I feel the subject field is outside my areas of expertise; or 3) I am unfamiliar with the required software (e.g., AutoCAD); or 4) I have a medical appointment; or 5) I just want to take a day off to recuperate; or otherwise.
If I am uncomfortable with a subject field, I just advise the client accordingly. ALL of them appreciate this. If possible, I refer them to a trusted colleague with the requisite expertise and/or skills and/or software.
Some regular clients book my time one to three weeks ahead to make sure their translation project will be taken care of as required.
| | | | Roman Karabaev
Russian Federation
Local time: 21:51
English to Russian
+ ...
Sadek_A wrote:
- Who needs to own an apartment when they can have the same apartment for USD50 a month with utilities included?
They can't. There is a correlation between purchase price and rental price. With respect to residential property, this correlation may be less beneficial to landlords, yet still nobody will rent an apartment with rental yield of less than 1% per year.
~USD50 is a sum you pay as an owner of the property. No rent included.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| You misread that | Jul 11, 2022 |
$50 is a building fee. It's what you keep paying every month after you own the place already.
Sort of like an HOA fee in the west.
Seems low for Russia btw, sounds like he has some kind fee relief (military/pensioner/disability/regional discount). Or maybe for a standalone private house in a village/suburb with next to no services? Residents of apartment building, which is the majority of people live there, pay more.
Actual rent-rent would be ~300 - 1000+, ... See more $50 is a building fee. It's what you keep paying every month after you own the place already.
Sort of like an HOA fee in the west.
Seems low for Russia btw, sounds like he has some kind fee relief (military/pensioner/disability/regional discount). Or maybe for a standalone private house in a village/suburb with next to no services? Residents of apartment building, which is the majority of people live there, pay more.
Actual rent-rent would be ~300 - 1000+, with the lower end being absolutely tiny and/or in truly sad or remote places. And even if translators don't need to commute, you still need stable electricity, good internet access, personal safety, and access to transportation and infrastructure (or a reliable 4x4 and a significant fuel budget).
[Edited at 2022-07-11 12:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 21:51
English to Arabic
+ ...
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
I do decline jobs from regular clients from time to time
Job declined over topic alone = good cash declined. I suppose nobody likes that, I know I don't.
I accept all sorts of content, the more challenging the better (both money & abilities-building -wise).
Never declined over topic alone.
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
And I don't see any problem with declining a job for various reasons: 1) I am busy working on another project; or 2) I feel the subject field is outside my areas of expertise; or 3) I am unfamiliar with the required software (e.g., AutoCAD); or 4) I have a medical appointment; or 5) I just want to take a day off to recuperate; or otherwise.
They would give you the benefit of the doubt once or twice or even thrice, then it's "we need to find a sustainable replacement".
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
If I am uncomfortable with a subject field, I just advise the client accordingly. ALL of them appreciate this. If possible, I refer them to a trusted colleague with the requisite expertise and/or skills and/or software.
And they will logically see that colleague as a "more helpful" player, especially when that colleague starts accepting the exact same projects you are comfortable with in addition to those with which you aren't.
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Some regular clients book my time one to three weeks ahead to make sure their translation project will be taken care of as required.
Those are the good ones.
Roman Karabaev wrote:
~USD50 is a sum you pay as an owner of the property. No rent included.
Exact words of Vladimir:
My one-bedroom apartment (for myself and my wife) in Zelenogradsk, Kaliningrad Region: about $50 per month (incl. water, electricity, gas, garbage collection).
If that's not rent, then what is it? Vladimir?!
Adieu wrote:
Actual rent-rent would be ~300 - 1000+
Sure, Sadek is coming, let's increase rent by over six folds.
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:51
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Half above, half below | Jul 11, 2022 |
David GAY wrote:
There s a huge difference between a software developer at Google and a guy who offers his services on Fiverr after a career in translation .
Agreed, and this a point I explicitly made in my posts. That's the bit about the importance of being in the top decile, and how if you're in the bottom decile you'll struggle.
Nevertheless, the median salary data takes this into account. I'm sure you know this, but just to refresh your memory, "median" means the point that divides the two halves of a dataset. So if you have a median salary of $110k, then half of the points in that data will be above that level, and half below. So that figure includes both the low earners and the high earners...
Regards,
Dan
| | | | Vladimir Pochinov
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:51
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER | My bad ... about the amount payable for my apartment ... Sorry for the confusion | Jul 11, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote:
Job declined over topic alone = good cash declined... I accept all sorts of content, the more challenging the better (both money & abilities-building -wise). Never declined over topic alone.
You won't let me stop this discussion, Sadek -
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
And I don't see any problem with declining a job sometimes.
They would give you the benefit of the doubt once or twice or even thrice, then it's "we need to find a sustainable replacement."
Strangely enough, some of my existing clients date back to the mid-2000s, even though I decline jobs from time to time.
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
If I am uncomfortable with a subject field, I just advise the client accordingly. ALL of them appreciate this. If possible, I refer them to a trusted colleague with the requisite expertise and/or skills and/or software.
And they will logically see that colleague as a "more helpful" player, especially when that colleague starts accepting the exact same projects you are comfortable with in addition to those with which you aren't.
See the above.
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Some regular clients book my time one to three weeks ahead to make sure their translation project will be taken care of as required.
Those are the good ones.
I've had all the time since 1999 to build up a loyal client base, while dropping the bad apples in due course.
Exact words of Vladimir:
My one-bedroom apartment (for myself and my wife) in Zelenogradsk, Kaliningrad Region: about $50 per month (incl. water, electricity, gas, garbage collection).
If that's not rent, then what is it? Vladimir?!
Sorry again. I own my apartment. $50 is the average monthly utility bill (water, electricity, gas, garbage collection).
| | | | David GAY
Local time: 19:51
English to French
+ ...
| salary vs income | Jul 11, 2022 |
Dan Lucas wrote: David GAY wrote:
There s a huge difference between a software developer at Google and a guy who offers his services on Fiverr after a career in translation . Agreed, and this a point I explicitly made in my posts. That's the bit about the importance of being in the top decile, and how if you're in the bottom decile you'll struggle. Nevertheless, the median salary data takes this into account. I'm sure you know this, but just to refresh your memory, "median" means the point that divides the two halves of a dataset. So if you have a median salary of $110k, then half of the points in that data will be above that level, and half below. So that figure includes both the low earners and the high earners... Regards, Dan
I know.
But we are talking here about salaries. So freelancers, for instance people who offer their services on Fiverr i.e. the low earners, are not in the scope of this study, because self employed don t receive any salary. Programing is typically a dual market.
[Edited at 2022-07-11 17:04 GMT]
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