| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4] > | References for rates on the market - another attempt to lower rates by an agency Thread poster: Geneviève Granger
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Hello,
An agency I work with (now a large group that have unfortunately swallowed a number of my former independent clients) have tried once again to lower my rates, asserting that the mean rate for the language pairs I offer was 0,09 - 0,095€ per word. The resource manager wrote that her company consulted different stakeholders to determine this, including ProZ.
I have been struggling with irregular work and the galloping inflation during the last years and it is acc... See more Hello,
An agency I work with (now a large group that have unfortunately swallowed a number of my former independent clients) have tried once again to lower my rates, asserting that the mean rate for the language pairs I offer was 0,09 - 0,095€ per word. The resource manager wrote that her company consulted different stakeholders to determine this, including ProZ.
I have been struggling with irregular work and the galloping inflation during the last years and it is accordingly out of question that I would now lower my rates.
My questions:
- Does ProZ actually provide information on the mean rates offered by freelance translators, and were to find this information?
- I thought to have seen in ProZ some years ago a *recommendation* to freelancers for a fair rate in order to earn a decent live. I cannot find this information any more. Does somebody have a hint on this?
- The last translation industry report indicates that freelance translators have mostly not be able to rise their rates in the past years and that these may even be pressed further down by agencies. How do you deal with that in the context of the current inflation? Personally, to return to a decent earning, I would definitively have to rise my rates in a near future. Do you also consider that and how do you estimate your chances to obtain it?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Geneviève ▲ Collapse
| | | | | *That* agency | Jul 14, 2022 |
Geneviève Granger wrote:
An agency I work with (now a large group that have unfortunately swallowed a number of my former independent clients) have tried once again to lower my rates
A French six-letter agency, I believe. I told them to get lost when they lowered the fuzzy discounts to an unacceptable level, but I wasn't getting a lot of work from them anyway. I also lost a couple of good independent agency clients when they were gobbled up by this cynical monster.
Geneviève Granger wrote:
- Does ProZ actually provide information on the mean rates offered by freelance translators, and were to find this information?
Tools > Proz.com tools > Community rates
https://search.proz.com/?sp=pfe/rates
DE>FR: 9-12 cents (EUR)
EN>FR: 8-11 cents
NL>FR: 8-11 cents
ES>FR: 7-10 cents
However, if we are talking about the same agency, much of what they do is legal, which can easily justify a higher rate than average. Even in general, it makes no sense that an experienced translator should remain on average rates their entire career.
Geneviève Granger wrote:
- The last translation industry report indicates that freelance translators have mostly not be able to rise their rates in the past years and that these may even be pressed further down by agencies. How do you deal with that in the context of the current inflation? Personally, to return to a decent earning, I would definitively have to rise my rates in a near future. Do you also consider that and how do you estimate your chances to obtain it?
Right now, I tell anyone who wants to pay less than my stated rates that they are not negotiable. Then they can take it or leave it. It isn't that easy to find good translators, and I'm not interested in clients whose primary focus is a low price. Those who need quality are more likely to pay a reasonable rate and accept to increase it in line with inflation. 'Oh, but then we may need to send you fewer jobs,' a good client said. Okay, then do that if they like. But the amount of work from them didn't drop. The absolute key ingredient in successful negotiation is the willingness to walk away if key conditions are not met. It works.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:45
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Gobble gobble | Jul 14, 2022 |
Thomas T. Frost wrote:
.... I also lost a couple of good independent agency clients when they were gobbled up
To what extent are small translation agencies being squeezed out by the big ones? It would be interesting to hear from some small agencies.
[Edited at 2022-07-14 10:46 GMT]
| | | | | Case study: Negotiating rates with a client | Jul 14, 2022 |
In terms of your rates, €X.XX/word is quite high for EN>RU translation so is there any movement on this?
Do you really think €X.XX/word is quite high for EN>RU translation? Even when charged by a veteran translator (active in the translation industry since 1987) with a unique mix of expertise and skills?
I beg to differ.
I started working for overseas clients back in 2003 by charging 2/3 of €X.XX/word. Do I have to start from square one again?
I know many translation agencies who charge their clients as low as 1/3 of €X.XX/word. I suspect they pay their translators 1/6 of €X.XX/word. Do I want to work for such agencies? No, I don’t.
One law firm client pays me 2x €X.XX/word (and rush rate is 50% higher). With as much as $5B at stake in a major M&A deal, and with the firm’s partners charging between $400 and $800 per hour, you don’t mind paying extra for timely and high-quality translation, do you?
If you believe I charge too high, think again please. Remember that one – "Cheapest is dearest?" Also, “if you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait ‘til you hire an amateur” © Paul Neal "Red" Adair.
On many occasions, a client chose to hire a much cheaper translator, only to come back again with a messy translation.
Well, you are free to work with cheaper translators. We may be serving different markets, after all.
With regard to your rates, in light of the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, I believe we can accept EUR X.XX/word. My hesitancy came from where we were seeing UK/RU rates positioned before but it’s true that these are continuing to rise and we are communicating this to our customers accordingly. Thank you for clarifying your stance on this, which I can fully appreciate.
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 18:45
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Geneviève Granger wrote:
- Does ProZ.com actually provide information on the mean rates offered by freelance translators, and were to find this information?
Yes, but it's not very accurate:
https://search.proz.com/?sp=pfe/rates
- I thought to have seen in ProZ some years ago a *recommendation* to freelancers for a fair rate in order to earn a decent live.
There are frequent posts on the forum about that, but I know of no such official statement.
Personally, to return to a decent earning, I would definitively have to rise my rates in a near future. Do you also consider that and how do you estimate your chances to obtain it?
In most countries, the pandemic is over, so any temporary reductions due to corona can now be reverted. The war in Ukraine is going to last for the next 10 years at least, so it's not a temporary situation either. If you want to raise your rates, now is as good a time as ever. Any excuse not to do so is just an excuse.
| | | | Geneviève Granger
Germany
Local time: 18:45
Member (2006)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | manager disappeared | Jul 15, 2022 |
Thank you for your much appreciated contributions.
... The ominous French group in A, indeed.
That person sent me that mail during my holidays, declaring that the new rate would come into effect if I would not answer until a deadline before my return. (Good try?)
I sent then a short negative answer with the intention of sending a more extended argumentation when I would be back.
I wrote to her accordingly a second mail yesterday and got back an "undelivera... See more Thank you for your much appreciated contributions.
... The ominous French group in A, indeed.
That person sent me that mail during my holidays, declaring that the new rate would come into effect if I would not answer until a deadline before my return. (Good try?)
I sent then a short negative answer with the intention of sending a more extended argumentation when I would be back.
I wrote to her accordingly a second mail yesterday and got back an "undeliverable" message, stating that the recipient couldn't be found at the company.
So I imagine they hired temporarily a McKinsey-like junky manager to "optimise" the company costs. Or they fired her after she found too much resistance in the translators. You never know. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Chances are it will get worse | Jul 15, 2022 |
The world economy forecast is grim, so my advice is to avoid caving in straight away to rock-bottom rates and keep some slack for the harder times to come!
More seriously, that one bought two smaller agencies I was working with sporadically, sent me some paperwork I didn't sign and later I asked that my profile be deactivated. In the meantime I received their new CAT grid, and it's indeed a joke.
From your account, it looks like I did the right thing, although they hadn't chal... See more The world economy forecast is grim, so my advice is to avoid caving in straight away to rock-bottom rates and keep some slack for the harder times to come!
More seriously, that one bought two smaller agencies I was working with sporadically, sent me some paperwork I didn't sign and later I asked that my profile be deactivated. In the meantime I received their new CAT grid, and it's indeed a joke.
From your account, it looks like I did the right thing, although they hadn't challenged (yet?) my stratospheric rate of EUR0.11 with the former agencies.
The issue with those agencies consolidating east and west in order to become regional or world leaders is that translators have fewer and fewer alternatives to go elsewhere. There is no better thing than a monopoly to set the rules for both customers and providers. The best we can do is to say no when things get out of hand in the hope that they realise one day they can't get reliability and skills for peanuts.
And July-August is never a time to decrease rates in EN-FR, but rather to raise them given the lack of "resources" during the summer.
Geneviève Granger wrote:
...Or they fired her after she found too much resistance in the translators. You never know.
Somebody hired the equivalent of many many thousands of words a day. And not a single line translated. That would be cool.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
| | | | David GAY
Local time: 18:45
English to French
+ ...
Geneviève Granger wrote:
So I imagine they hired temporarily a McKinsey-like junky manager to "optimise" the company costs.
It would be far too costly for them. This company has a very high employee turnover and employs a lot of interns.
[Edited at 2022-07-15 17:26 GMT]
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Geneviève Granger
Germany
Local time: 18:45
Member (2006)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Managing absurdities | Jul 18, 2022 |
It would be far too costly for them. This company has a very high employee turnover and employs a lot of interns.
 You are probably right. Though, to my experience, the management of large companies can do quite absurd things, and this would be not the first time I would experience that a company invests high costs to spare peanuts in the end.
Anyway, I find remarkable that the person has already left the company only 8 days after the reduced rate would apply.
[Edited at 2022-07-18 13:35 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-07-18 13:36 GMT]
| | | | David GAY
Local time: 18:45
English to French
+ ...
Geneviève Granger wrote: You are probably right. Though, to my experience, the management of large companies can do quite absurd things, and this would be not the first time I would experience that a company invests high costs to spare peanuts in the end. Anyway, I find remarkable that the person has already left the company only 8 days after the reduced rate would apply. [Edited at 2022-07-18 13:35 GMT] [Edited at 2022-07-18 13:36 GMT]
Unfortunately, it s not the first time they do it, nor the last...It s a company where so called raises are negative...Anyway, you are probably right. The big boss probably applies the same management methods as Blofeld at Spectre in James Bond movies. It s a shame. A few years ago, I used to work full time for one of the companies they took over. Since then, nearly all PMs have left the company. Now, this company is the shadow of what it used to be.
[Edited at 2022-07-18 19:41 GMT]
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 18:45
French to English
Tom in London wrote:
To what extent are small translation agencies being squeezed out by the big ones? It would be interesting to hear from some small agencies.
[Edited at 2022-07-14 10:46 GMT]
This is what happened to the agency I used to work for, it's now a big umbrella agency comprising several small ones. There are two agencies I work with that are part of big groups too, both previously being a scattering of smaller agencies. It does seem to be a trend. Like in the rest of the capitalist world.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 18:45
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Kay Denney wrote: Tom in London wrote:
To what extent are small translation agencies being squeezed out by the big ones? It would be interesting to hear from some small agencies.
[Edited at 2022-07-14 10:46 GMT] This is what happened to the agency I used to work for, it's now a big umbrella agency comprising several small ones. There are two agencies I work with that are part of big groups too, both previously being a scattering of smaller agencies. It does seem to be a trend. Like in the rest of the capitalist world.
One of my clients has recently been purchased by such umbrella agency. I received my first job offer today: an MTPE assignment (sorry, a 'translation 2.0' assignment) for an offered rate that's 30% below the MTPE rate I stated on their platform. Also known as 'working for peanuts'. I declined the peanuts.
It makes me wonder why they purchase other translation agencies. To take over their well paying clients and then further increase their profit by lowering the translator's rates? It's cynical.
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| Public reviews | Jul 19, 2022 |
To make the public aware of such practices, we can always leave reviews of such agencies at sites such as Google Maps and Trustpilot.
| | | | | Volume matters | Jul 19, 2022 |
Geneviève Granger wrote:
Hello,
An agency I work with (now a large group that have unfortunately swallowed a number of my former independent clients) have tried once again to lower my rates, asserting that the mean rate for the language pairs I offer was 0,09 - 0,095€ per word. The resource manager wrote that her company consulted different stakeholders to determine this, including ProZ.
I have been struggling with irregular work and the galloping inflation during the last years and it is accordingly out of question that I would now lower my rates.
My questions:
- Does ProZ actually provide information on the mean rates offered by freelance translators, and were to find this information?
- I thought to have seen in ProZ some years ago a *recommendation* to freelancers for a fair rate in order to earn a decent live. I cannot find this information any more. Does somebody have a hint on this?
- The last translation industry report indicates that freelance translators have mostly not be able to rise their rates in the past years and that these may even be pressed further down by agencies. How do you deal with that in the context of the current inflation? Personally, to return to a decent earning, I would definitively have to rise my rates in a near future. Do you also consider that and how do you estimate your chances to obtain it?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Geneviève
Sorry you go through all that. I have had to learn for myself that nowadays it's all about the volume.
Since most often, I can only charge much less than what I charged 20 years ago, I can really only survive as a translator with large volume projects. Of course, I can't go below a certain point. But as long a voluminous project pays me more than a ridiculous job I could work somewhere, I survive. Survive that is. Not really prosper. For that, I started writing. Might as well. Wish me luck. Take care.;-)
| | | | | The way of the world | Jul 19, 2022 |
Kay Denney wrote:
This is what happened to the agency I used to work for, it's now a big umbrella agency comprising several small ones. There are two agencies I work with that are part of big groups too, both previously being a scattering of smaller agencies. It does seem to be a trend. Like in the rest of the capitalist world.
It's been going on throughout the 30 years I've been a translator.
Successful translator/entrepreneur builds up boutique agency and sells out to global giant on retirement. Global giant introduces multiple systems which mean that:
- translators get shorter deadlines and do twice the admin for less money
- end-clients wait longer and pay more for lower quality
It's daylight robbery but they always seem to get away with it.
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